Big Bluestem

[fargus]

Where does this stuff work? Can you find seed? and what is the viability like?

We have one more parcel to seed down next year, and I saw a sample of it last week. It is being considered as an energy crop for Ontario, but I've heard it talked about as a productive part of tallgrass prairie.

What are it's strengths, weaknesses, and what does everyone like or dislike about it? Thanks for any practical knowledge you can share.

 

[BC]

Here is a seed source - Bamert Seed
http://www.bamertseed.com/seeds.html

 

[jkwilson]

IIRC, it maintains it's energy reserves in the leaves over the winter, so mowing or grazing late in the summer or in the fall is very rough on it.

 

[1982vett]

Big Bluestem is call "big" as opposed to "Little Bluestem".......because IT IS BIG. A grass that forms a clump a foot or better in diameter and 6-10 inches tall with grass 3-4 feet tall, maybe taller. Not one you would want to ride a tractor and haybine thru.

 

[Texas Gal]

Big Bluestem is call "big" as opposed to "Little Bluestem".......because IT IS BIG. A grass that forms a clump a foot or better in diameter and 6-10 inches tall with grass 3-4 feet tall, maybe taller. Not one you would want to ride a tractor and haybine thru.

...or have to walk through for any length of time! It'll flat wear you out but the cows absolutely LOVE it.

 

[novaman]

I've heard it referred to as "ice cream grass" because the cows absolutely love it. Been told they will eat it before nearly anything else.

 

[dun]

I've heard it referred to as "ice cream grass" because the cows absolutely love it. Been told they will eat it before nearly anything else.

I had heard all of those lies too. That's why we planted a 27 acre pasture with the usless stuff. A mixture of Big Blue, Little Blue and side oats. Cows will barely eat the stuff. The patches of clover and fescue they eat to the dirt, then a bite or 2 of the WSG and then onto weeds.

 

[fargus]

Thanks dun. That's the experience type of thing I was looking for.

I always get asked why we don't use more orchardgrass. Tell you the truth it doesn't do what the "gurus" tell you it will, and the cows prefer other forages. I've never had palatability issues with fescue, brome, or reed canarygrass, but OG is not their preference. Anybody have some real, positive experience with Big Bluestem on their own operations?

 

[dun]

Thanks dun. That's the experience type of thing I was looking for.

I always get asked why we don't use more orchardgrass. Tell you the truth it doesn't do what the "gurus" tell you it will, and the cows prefer other forages. I've never had palatability issues with fescue, brome, or reed canarygrass, but OG is not their preference. Anybody have some real, positive experience with Big Bluestem on their own operations?

Funny you should mention OG. Mine will eat it but they far prefer fescue

 

[fargus]

Thanks dun. That's the experience type of thing I was looking for.

I always get asked why we don't use more orchardgrass. Tell you the truth it doesn't do what the "gurus" tell you it will, and the cows prefer other forages. I've never had palatability issues with fescue, brome, or reed canarygrass, but OG is not their preference. Anybody have some real, positive experience with Big Bluestem on their own operations?

Funny you should mention OG. Mine will eat it but they far prefer fescue

They'll eat it.... but only if we put them in a small enough parcel that they have to eat it. Otherwise it goes to seed and gets trampled in and makes more of the darn stuff.

 

[dun]

Thanks dun. That's the experience type of thing I was looking for.

I always get asked why we don't use more orchardgrass. Tell you the truth it doesn't do what the "gurus" tell you it will, and the cows prefer other forages. I've never had palatability issues with fescue, brome, or reed canarygrass, but OG is not their preference. Anybody have some real, positive experience with Big Bluestem on their own operations?

Funny you should mention OG. Mine will eat it but they far prefer fescue

They'll eat it.... but only if we put them in a small enough parcel that they have to eat it. Otherwise it goes to seed and gets trampled in and makes more of the darn stuff.

Yup, that would be the stuff!

 

[terra8186]

Anybody have some real, positive experience with Big Bluestem on their own operations?

I planted 11 acres of prairie grass on my own land. The mix has flowers, big bluestem, little bluestem, canada rye, switchgrass, and Indian Grass. It does great around here for wildlife. I don't let cattle graze it because it is planted for wildlife. I have some experience in planting and establishing the grasses because I have been doing it for our local Pheasants Forever organization and I have planted over 200 acres.

What I don't understand is why you would plant this stuff for cattle grazing in Canada. It is a warm season grass that only grows above 70F (I am guessing on the actual temperature). I would think you could graze bluestem for 2 months out of the year, but if you put in some cool season grasses you would be green for a more months out of the year. I live south of Detroit, Michigan where the temperatures hit 70's in June and 80-90's in July an August. My grass starts growing in June, heads out in late July and turns brown by September.

When I drive up north (around the 45 lattitude) I see big bluestem growing on the side of the road. It does not look that impressive. It has small clumps about 1' high and a couple of large shoots that might reach 3-4'. Around here I have grass clumps that reach 3-4' and the shoots go to 5-6'. I attribute the differences to the length of growing season and the poor sandy acidic soils in upper Michigan.

 

[pdfangus]

I don't understand the comments on Orchardgrass.

around here the problem is that if continuous grazed the livestock will stand over the orchdgrass and wait for it to put out new shoots. thus the livestock by preferring the OG select against it making it hard to maintain in a mixed grass stand.

Orchardgrass does not stockpile as well as fescue and does not persist into the winter as well but it is an excellent high quality forage.

I would say better suited to a hay crop than a pasture crop to get persistence.

I am hoping that by converting to MIG grazing rather than rotational grazing that I can increase the OG in my pastures as well as some other species.

 

[dun]

I don't understand the comments on Orchardgrass.

around here the problem is that if continuous grazed the livestock will stand over the orchdgrass and wait for it to put out new shoots. thus the livestock by preferring the OG select against it making it hard to maintain in a mixed grass stand.

Orchardgrass does not stockpile as well as fescue and does not persist into the winter as well but it is an excellent high quality forage.

I would say better suited to a hay crop than a pasture crop to get persistence.

I am hoping that by converting to MIG grazing rather than rotational grazing that I can increase the OG in my pastures as well as some other species.

OG works well for hay if you don;t cut it as short as you do fescue. If you cut it short (around hear to about 3 inches) it will be gone in 2 years.
We have volunteer timothy in a couple of pastures and the cows won;t eat it either but they like the downy brome. People tell me our cows are spoiled because the eat fescue and won;t touch the WSG. I see it as just the opposite. Unspoile (excpet for being rotated to new pastures every 3-5 days) and they're a cheap date because they like the common easy to grow toxic fescue

 

[pdfangus]

Dun,

I guess it just goes to show that the animals will adapt to their environment and learn to thrive in that environment geive the opportunity.

Our cows adapted to the fescue problems but they never got to the point that they preferred it over orchardgrass. that is until frost in the fall and then it seemed to turn to candy.

 

[Jovid]

Thanks dun. That's the experience type of thing I was looking for.

I always get asked why we don't use more orchardgrass. Tell you the truth it doesn't do what the "gurus" tell you it will, and the cows prefer other forages. I've never had palatability issues with fescue, brome, or reed canarygrass, but OG is not their preference. Anybody have some real, positive experience with Big Bluestem on their own operations?

Hate to disagree with Dun but it is jut the opposite here in NE Oklahoma. Almost all are pastures are 80-90 % blue-stem and the cattle love and do real well on it. They prefer it over bermuda and fescue.

The area where I live have several large ranches that graze stockers on it from April till August. They ship cattle from FL, AL, LA...etc to graze on it before they ship to the feedlots. The steers will gain over 3 lbs a day on it.

 

[3waycross]

I have hunted it where it was up to my chest. Very unpleasant to walk in. I would think cows would want it very young.

 

[dun]

Hate to disagree with Dun but it is jut the opposite here in NE Oklahoma. Almost all are pastures are 80-90 % blue-stem and the cattle love and do real well on it. They prefer it over bermuda and fescue.

Dis a gree away, different cattle with different tastes. The cows we board every summer love the stuff, that's what they get for hay during the winter.

 

[dun]

I have hunted it where it was up to my chest. Very unpleasant to walk in. I would think cows would want it very young.

Knee high or a little shorter is about optimum, but mine won;t eat it even if it's only a couple of inches.

 

[fargus]

I don't understand the comments on Orchardgrass.

around here the problem is that if continuous grazed the livestock will stand over the orchdgrass and wait for it to put out new shoots. thus the livestock by preferring the OG select against it making it hard to maintain in a mixed grass stand.

Orchardgrass does not stockpile as well as fescue and does not persist into the winter as well but it is an excellent high quality forage.

I would say better suited to a hay crop than a pasture crop to get persistence.

I am hoping that by converting to MIG grazing rather than rotational grazing that I can increase the OG in my pastures as well as some other species.

Been away for a couple days, sorry to start a topic and disappear.

We run intensive rotational grazing, the cows get moved every 1-3 days depending on growing conditions, stage of the season, etc. Our OG lasts 20+ years and we can pretty much count on some reseeding every year. The cows don't prefer it once it is 6+ inches tall, but will eat it if you force them to. In a continuous grazing system, or a longer rotation (1 week + in the same field) they'll annhilate OG because the regrowth is so vigorous. I do like how early it starts in the year, and it regrows fast. I think it disappears because it is the first grass to send up new shoots, and the cows nip it off then because they love the brand new shoots. That's murder to a grass, especially one that throws up new growth that quickly.

I was curious about the big bluestem because being a warm season grass it matures later. We get a lot of 80-90+ weather in June through the middle of August, and it would be nice to not have to hit every inch of the farm between May 1 and May 20. (If we don't, that's when that darned OG gets way ahead of us, and we never catch up after that.) I had heard a few good things about it, and finally saw the stuff live. It seemed to be fine-leaved, and wasn't even thinking about heading out yet. I wouldn't be using it for hay, it would strictly be a pasture species. The two most common dedicated energy crops grown here are switchgrass and miscanthus, with switchgrass yielding 4-5 tons/ac and established miscanthus doing 10+ so we know we can successfully grow C4 perennial grasses. Might be best if I stick to our tall fescue, reed canarygrass and trefoil cocktail.