Old World Bluestem(s)

[ValleyView]

Does anyone on here have any experience establishing Old World Bluestems? Curious what the consensus is. They seem to be equally loved and loathed by the masses.

I am considering converting a few worn out pastures to OWB this spring. I have been told this can be done with minimal to zero to tillage by utilizing just a drop spreader but am skeptical.

 

[bird dog]

The seed is awful expensive to screw around with and risk not getting a stand. Sure some will come up, but in most cases by not preparing a proper seedbed and planting it correctly, you will be disappointed. You may have seen this but others may have not and gives a good description on the plants.

http://www.wbseedco.com/oldworldbluestems.htm

 

[ValleyView]

The seed is awful expensive to screw around with and risk not getting a stand. Sure some will come up, but in most cases by not preparing a proper seedbed and planting it correctly, you will be disappointed. You may have seen this but others may have not and gives a good description on the plants.

http://www.wbseedco.com/oldworldbluestems.htm

Yeah, given it's a pricey proposition per acre I'd sure as heck like it to work. There's a guy selling seed in the High PJ that is considerably cheaper than other places online. He's actually the one that said to stay away from a no-till and just use a drop seeder/spreader. Figured the man knows his product, but still makes me freaking nervous!

Below is some additional info from OKstate. TAMU has quite a bit of info as well.

http://pods.dasnr.okstate.edu/docushare/dsweb/Get/Document-2554/PSS-2603web.pdf

 

[bird dog]

A drop seeder is by far the way to plant the seed if you have a good seedbed. Let it drop on bare soil , then press it in with a roller or a cultipacker. Even then it is not a sure thing. A heavy rain will float all the seed to one spot.

I learned years ago to try not to do to much at one time. Complete failures are expensive. Small seed is tough to figure out when first starting. After you gain some experience it still is a humiliating and expensive proposition.

Desirable plants in nature put out a lot of seeds because very few will actually turn into a plant. That alone should tell you its not as easy as the seed sellers tell you it will be. One thing to always consider, the bigger the seed, the easier it is to get a stand.

BTW, what is the "High PJ"?

 

[ValleyView]

A drop seeder is by far the way to plant the seed if you have a good seedbed. Let it drop on bare soil , then press it in with a roller or a cultipacker. Even then it is not a sure thing. A heavy rain will float all the seed to one spot.

I learned years ago to try not to do to much at one time. Complete failures are expensive. Small seed is tough to figure out when first starting. After you gain some experience it still is a humiliating and expensive proposition.

Desirable plants in nature put out a lot of seeds because very few will actually turn into a plant. That alone should tell you its not as easy as the seed sellers tell you it will be. One thing to always consider, the bigger the seed, the easier it is to get a stand.

BTW, what is the "High PJ"?

Good to know a drop seeder is the preferred application. Preparing the seed bed will be the next piece of the puzzle for me to figure out.

Fortunately, the lack of desirables is why I'm looking at reseeding these pastures in the first place. They are just a lot of cheat grass, tickle grass and three awn. I'm debating doing the seeding as a follow up to burning or to skip burning and disc it all up, then plant.

To date, the only things I've been able to grow decently well was winter wheat and Hay Grazer being put down with a rented no-till. I am sick of renting the no-till and would be happy to buy a disc and drop seeder as longer term solution to my pasture woes.

I was being lazy, it's the High Plains Journal!

 

[bird dog]

Three awn (needle grass) is one of my big problems as this ranch was neglected for a number of years. I picked out the worst spot of it as an experiment 2 1/2 years ago. About 10 acres. It was a solid blanket of three awn with scattered mesquite trees. I have disced and planted , disced again and planted again. The first time disced it, the plants wrapped around the disc so tight and thick I had to burn them off with a torch. I put Sorghum almum out on it last spring. I no till drilled oats and rye grass into the stalks this fall. Its a long process but is slowly getting better. At least for now there is something desirable growing amongst the trash plants and the cows head for that patch first when they rotate to that pasture.

Johnson grass or sorghum almum is a good cheap grass to put down where you have nothing. The seed is cheap and it doesn't require a bunch of fertilizer. It will reseed itself if you want to keep it around. Scratch some oats into the stalks in the fall after the last grazing. Patience is the name of the game when recovering neglected pastures on the cheap.

 

[ValleyView]

Three awn (needle grass) is one of my big problems as this ranch was neglected for a number of years. I picked out the worst spot of it as an experiment 2 1/2 years ago. About 10 acres. It was a solid blanket of three awn with scattered mesquite trees. I have disced and planted , disced again and planted again. The first time disced it, the plants wrapped around the disc so tight and thick I had to burn them off with a torch. I put Sorghum almum out on it last spring. I no till drilled oats and rye grass into the stalks this fall. Its a long process but is slowly getting better. At least for now there is something desirable growing amongst the trash plants and the cows head for that patch first when they rotate to that pasture.

Johnson grass or sorghum almum is a good cheap grass to put down where you have nothing. The seed is cheap and it doesn't require a bunch of fertilizer. It will reseed itself if you want to keep it around. Scratch some oats into the stalks in the fall after the last grazing. Patience is the name of the game when recovering neglected pastures on the cheap.

Very similar scenario as my ground was a lease place for 20yrs prior to us purchasing it. I have to remind myself it's a marathon and not a sprint.

Glad to hear the three awn can at least be knocked back over time, I get really sick of looking at it and the other undesirables. I may just focus more on discing and cheaper seed this year bc anything is better than what's there currently.

I appreciate your input and wish you luck as well!

 

[Allenw]

I always seen it planted into cover here, either a sacrifice sorghum stand from the previous year or into a growing wheat crop that was harvested for grain later. You won't know until the second year if you have a stand or not.

fertilizer hungry, feast or fsmine and then it freezes out on you,.

 

[Texasmark]

In looking at Hancock Seed Co. availability, Bluestem was not recommended for my location, 35 miles from the river as the crow flies. Don't know how far North you are in Ok. Most of the goodie grasses used in the Northern tier US aren't adaptable here. Like I said, my options are limited and what I thought to be a lifesaver....Sorghum-Sudan, was invaded in 2014 by the Sugar Cane Aphid and now that's ruined.

 

[Texasmark]

A drop seeder is by far the way to plant the seed if you have a good seedbed. Let it drop on bare soil , then press it in with a roller or a cultipacker. Even then it is not a sure thing. A heavy rain will float all the seed to one spot.

I learned years ago to try not to do to much at one time. Complete failures are expensive. Small seed is tough to figure out when first starting. After you gain some experience it still is a humiliating and expensive proposition.

Desirable plants in nature put out a lot of seeds because very few will actually turn into a plant. That alone should tell you its not as easy as the seed sellers tell you it will be. One thing to always consider, the bigger the seed, the easier it is to get a stand.

BTW, what is the "High PJ"?

"Desirable plants in nature put out a lot of seeds because very few will actually turn into a plant." Gives you a ray of hope when you see the seed pods "weeds" produce and then pull up one and see a tap root like a Carrot vs your desired plant's root offering.

 

[Allenw]

I would rather have bermuda then old world bluestem. Fescue might even be an option on the eastern side of the state.

 

[ValleyView]

I would rather have bermuda then old world bluestem. Fescue might even be an option on the eastern side of the state.

Bermuda is great, but I don't think I can afford to convert my place to it. Also, since my place is mainly native I'd like to keep it that way or bring in old worlds as a concession.

We also have a fair amount of fescue now, but I don't want much more than I already have. Just enough to get by when the WSG's turn on/off.

 

[Texasmark]

"...........Johnson grass or sorghum almum is a good cheap grass to put down where you have nothing. The seed is cheap and it doesn't require a bunch of fertilizer. It will reseed itself if you want to keep it around.........

Checked out pricing and availability this year? Hopefully both will come in line as the year progresses. I'm looking at JG for a hay patch this year as that is what my customer wants me to plant, after telling me he wanted no more Rye and Fescue.....not sweet enough. Ok fine with me, just have to find it more affordable. Last time I bought some seed, a couple of years ago, the local seed merchant said to "sneak it out the back door....I don't want my other customers seeing that I sold it to you"......indicating the general feeling of folks that consider it a noxious weed. Last year he couldn't find any. This year I am doing my own shopping.....trying to get a new field established in it.

 

[bird dog]

"...........Johnson grass or sorghum almum is a good cheap grass to put down where you have nothing. The seed is cheap and it doesn't require a bunch of fertilizer. It will reseed itself if you want to keep it around.........

Checked out pricing and availability this year? Hopefully both will come in line as the year progresses. I'm looking at JG for a hay patch this year as that is what my customer wants me to plant, after telling me he wanted no more Rye and Fescue.....not sweet enough. Ok fine with me, just have to find it more affordable. Last time I bought some seed, a couple of years ago, the local seed merchant said to "sneak it out the back door....I don't want my other customers seeing that I sold it to you"......indicating the general feeling of folks that consider it a noxious weed. Last year he couldn't find any. This year I am doing my own shopping.....trying to get a new field established in it.

Try Turner seed. $2 lb I think. Sorghum Almum is $1.50 lb. They can ship it fairly cheap

 

[Texasmark]

I did check Turner for JG seed and he was sold out. In the time spent on this quest, I think I am seeing a lot of JG sold out by seed producers because the fresh crop isn't ready for sale as yet. Closer to planting, and a remark from Hancock, tells me that the sold outs will mostly, if not all change to in stock in a month or two.

Best price on the Gotcha Plus was from my fertilizer supplier (Eldorado Chemical) in Whiteright, Tx. Last time I bought from him he was selling it for $35/50#...don't remember which year that was as I have been using bag fertilizer lately (to get some Sulphur and the trace elements) and he is a bulk supplier. Considering that and what seed seems to be going for these days.....phew, gotta know what you are doing and get lucky to get it right and have a good germination. That's why I just decided to buy some small test quantities, get off in the corner of the field and run some tests for a decision on which works best next season.