Beefmaster over Baldies

[slick4591]

Good or bad cross?

 

[bigbull338]

you cant go wrong with beefmaster bull over baldie cows.the calves will hitt the ground growing.an they will add pounds to the calves.

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

You can do better.

 

[slick4591]

Friend of mine has the baldies. He has two bred to a fence jumping angus and the other six AI'd to a Gelbvieh. The AI tech is trying to sell him a Beefmaster and he was asking me about it. I'm not all that crazy with it as I like the Gelbvieh myself. Told him I would get some different opinions on it. Thanks for the ones already in.

 

[cross_7]

I can understand the beefmaster cows but what would the benefit be of using a beefmaster bull unless your trying to make cows ?
If you're wanting steers I don't see using a beefmaster on baldie's ..JMO

 

[DOC HARRIS]

All of these opinions are fairly interesting, but "explained" reasons for the opinions would be more helpful, and considerably more thought provoking! "You can do better" doesn't explain why, or how. What would be the alternative matings - in your opinion?

...and - slick4591 - why do you like the Gelbvieh? I do too, but what are your reasons for liking them? ...and what, in your mind, consists of a "good" or a "bad" cross? ... and "why"?

My point here is, we all must have a reason or a thought in mind in order to be able to compare options in breeding protocols. The many answers to WHY 'such and such' is an option could be a help in coming to a correct conclusion in mating decisions. Profitable beef cattle management is necessary in order to make a PROFIT, and if one is not interested in a profit, why work so hard to lose money?

This thread could be a terrific source of information if the proper questions are answered with thought provoking suggestions. There are not necessarily any right or wrong answers to some of these comments, but there should be adequate reasoning supporting the statements!

DOC HARRIS

 

[slick4591]

Glad you posted, Doc.

I'm have a very limited knowledge of all the breeds, but I like Gelbvieh because I believe with these baldies they will put the pounds on for terminals. I agree with cross_7 about the maternal aspects of Beefmaster. Although, if I wanted to produce maternal animals I would go back to the Angus or Hereford. I have also kicked around the idea of putting my Piedmontese bull on them for the terminal calf.

I'm looking at the baldy heifer as a cross road animal. Go left with certain breeds and you can produce a good terminal. Go right with other breeds and you'll make some mighty fine cows. Gelbvieh is just the breed I'm a little familiar with that I think works well, but I got to figure there are others that I'm not so familiar with. Hence, the reason I'm looking for opinions.

 

[3waycross]

Glad you posted, Doc.

I'm have a very limited knowledge of all the breeds, but I like Gelbvieh because I believe with these baldies they will put the pounds on for terminals. I agree with cross_7 about the maternal aspects of Beefmaster. Although, if I wanted to produce maternal animals I would go back to the Angus or Hereford. I have also kicked around the idea of putting my Piedmontese bull on them for the terminal calf.

I'm looking at the baldy heifer as a cross road animal. Go left with certain breeds and you can produce a good terminal. Go right with other breeds and you'll make some mighty fine cows. Gelbvieh is just the breed I'm a little familiar with that I think works well, but I got to figure there are others that I'm not so familiar with. Hence, the reason I'm looking for opinions.

Assuming that the Baldies are the traditional Herf X Angus. The Gelbvieh sounds like a good choice and not just for terminal. You can always keep the heifers and go back on them with a good Balancer bull. Those heifers from the 3way cross should be good milkers with lots of longevity built in!

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

Doc i thought the "you can do better" comment was fairly self explanatory. Slick does have a Ped bull. How ever i think Cross7 gave a decent explanation of why and why not on the Beefmaster bull. I could have said to use a nice Limousin bull but didn't want to look like a breed pimp.

 

[slick4591]

Assuming that the Baldies are the traditional Herf X Angus. The Gelbvieh sounds like a good choice and not just for terminal. You can always keep the heifers and go back on them with a good Balancer bull. Those heifers from the 3way cross should be good milkers with lots of longevity built in!

They are traditional and you're probably right. It's just that I'm not thinking of going in too many directions with breeds. I'm thinking that staying with one of the foundation breeds would give me better control of what kind of calves hit the ground. That is, if he should decide to keep replacements.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Good or bad cross?

Now as everyone know's I am a brimmer fan and I wouldn't put a Beefmaster bull over a set of cow's.
1.There is a chance for some spotted calves or wild color's.
2. You are adding ear and hide. This is the exact opposite of what I am trying to do.
3. This would depend even more on your baldie momma's are the Brangus/Hereford cross or Angus/Herf cross.
4. Way to much brimmer in my calves out of the super baldie.
5. I run red baldies Braford's there is no benifit to the Beefmaster as I am produceing a 50% brimmer calf.

Now with all that said a Beefmaster bull over my cow's would produce a fast growing great calf.
I just can't take the hammering at the barn on the calves with too much ear and hide. The heifer's would make great momma cow's if you didn't end up with too much frame. When crossbreeding frame can get out of hand quick for a retained heifer market.

 

[BC]

All of these opinions are fairly interesting, but "explained" reasons for the opinions would be more helpful, and considerably more thought provoking! "You can do better" doesn't explain why, or how. What would be the alternative matings - in your opinion?

...and - slick4591 - why do you like the Gelbvieh? I do too, but what are your reasons for liking them? ...and what, in your mind, consists of a "good" or a "bad" cross? ... and "why"?

My point here is, we all must have a reason or a thought in mind in order to be able to compare options in breeding protocols. The many answers to WHY 'such and such' is an option could be a help in coming to a correct conclusion in mating decisions. Profitable beef cattle management is necessary in order to make a PROFIT, and if one is not interested in a profit, why work so hard to lose money?

This thread could be a terrific source of information if the proper questions are answered with thought provoking suggestions. There are not necessarily any right or wrong answers to some of these comments, but there should be adequate reasoning supporting the statements!

DOC HARRIS

Thank you for this post and it could apply to a lot of threads.

As to the question of whether you could use a Beefmaster bull on black baldy cows, yes this cross would work IF your goal is to produce a replacement female that is adapted to your Texas conditions (knowing that the steers would not top the market, but would be very acceptable to most feeder buyers in Northeast Texas). If your goal is to produce terminal cross calves, then you some of your other ideas would be better.

 

[thommoos]

Now as everyone know's I am a brimmer fan and I wouldn't put a Beefmaster bull over a set of cow's.
1.There is a chance for some spotted calves or wild color's.
2. You are adding ear and hide. This is the exact opposite of what I am trying to do.
3. This would depend even more on your baldie momma's are the Brangus/Hereford cross or Angus/Herf cross.
4. Way to much brimmer in my calves out of the super baldie.
5. I run red baldies Braford's there is no benifit to the Beefmaster as I am produceing a 50% brimmer calf.

Now with all that said a Beefmaster bull over my cow's would produce a fast growing great calf.
I just can't take the hammering at the barn on the calves with too much ear and hide. The heifer's would make great momma cow's if you didn't end up with too much frame. When crossbreeding frame can get out of hand quick for a retained heifer market.

1. false assumption the spotting has been pretty much bred out, I have not seen a red spot calf in years, from any of the beefmaster bulls breeding.
2. with the correct Beefmaster (Foundation Type), clean underlines, reduced ear, not the Beefmasters of Old case and point

whats sheathy about him?
3.Assumption here is Angus/herf
5. Less than 25 % brimmer with a Beefmaster Bull.
A beefmaster is Texas seems to be a good choice, even a black beefmaster.

The added weight @ weaning, calving ease, not to mention Heterozosis. Probale polled too, more than likely black.

 

[Limomike]

Doc i thought the "you can do better" comment was fairly self explanatory. Slick does have a Ped bull. How ever i think Cross7 gave a decent explanation of why and why not on the Beefmaster bull. I could have said to use a nice Limousin bull but didn't want to look like a breed pimp.

I'm going to go ahead and say it..even if I look like a breed pimp.. Use a good Limousin bull, and you have a fine cross. I guess it depends on what you are going to do with those calves. Beefmaster will give you some good calves too, but around here, they would take a hit at the sale barn.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Now as everyone know's I am a brimmer fan and I wouldn't put a Beefmaster bull over a set of cow's.
1.There is a chance for some spotted calves or wild color's.
2. You are adding ear and hide. This is the exact opposite of what I am trying to do.
3. This would depend even more on your baldie momma's are the Brangus/Hereford cross or Angus/Herf cross.
4. Way to much brimmer in my calves out of the super baldie.
5. I run red baldies Braford's there is no benifit to the Beefmaster as I am produceing a 50% brimmer calf.

Now with all that said a Beefmaster bull over my cow's would produce a fast growing great calf.
I just can't take the hammering at the barn on the calves with too much ear and hide. The heifer's would make great momma cow's if you didn't end up with too much frame. When crossbreeding frame can get out of hand quick for a retained heifer market.

1. false assumption the spotting has been pretty much bred out, I have not seen a red spot calf in years, from any of the beefmaster bulls breeding.
2. with the correct Beefmaster (Foundation Type), clean underlines, reduced ear, not the Beefmasters of Old case and point

whats sheathy about him?
3.Assumption here is Angus/herf
5. Less than 25 % brimmer with a Beefmaster Bull.
A beefmaster is Texas seems to be a good choice, even a black beefmaster.

The added weight @ weaning, calving ease, not to mention Heterozosis. Probale polled too, more than likely black.

If you had read the post I said on my cow's and calves.
You are not going to find a herd of Angus/Herf cow's in this part of the world. If it is a baldie it is a super baldie and 9 times out of 10 it will be Brangus over a tiger.
What you fail to understand again in this part of the world when you put a Beefmaster on a set of cow's you end up with a 50% Brimmer calf.
You can't hardly give away a cow in this part of the world that is not at least a 1/4 Brimmer.
Beefmaster cow's are a nice fit for our climate with a good Angus bull will ring the bell at the barn.
The bull's don't make a good marketable calf here over Tiger's and Brangus.
Again these are my POS cow's and a Beefmaster bull is absolutely the worse cross to put dollar's in my pocket.
There are more baldies than Angus/Herf. These are the type cow's standing in most pasture's in this part of the world.




Again that Shorthorn DNA is still in the woodpile over Tiger's and Braford's will produce some wild color's.

 

[Stocker Steve]

We used 2 Limi bulls last year on mostly baldie cows. Bigger weanlings than the previous BA bull sired. Best calves came out of heavy milking cows with a little SH in the wood pile. Seem to need milk to get a big improvement in growth...
We also AIed a 4 frame Oak Park BA bull on wf heifers and Victor 719 Herf on black heifers. Kept half of the heifers calves but some will go to stocker herd this summer. Trying to be positive about energy since they did winter on cow hay - - but the BA calves just don't have the length or the capacity of the Limi X calves. Really a major difference. Victor 719 calves are a little shorter than Limi X but they have capacity and are very competitive.
Use a continental bull of your favorite color for terminal calves.

 

[slick4591]

This first set of calves will all be terminal unless someone comes along to purchase a heifer. My friend does not have the room to retain anything as he is already pushing the limit of his pasture. So, terminal is what he's shooting for and down the line he'll keep some replacements. I just don't want to create a big circle of breeds and loose his objective. I am sure there are plenty of breeds that would work between now and then, but the replacements are what I'm aiming for.

We talked again this morning and he told me the Beefmaster bull was 3K. I haven't seen the bull, but I told him he's better off to stick with an AI program and not buy.

 

[thommoos]

We talked again this morning and he told me the Beefmaster bull was 3K. I haven't seen the bull, but I told him he's better off to stick with an AI program and not buy.

Agree 100 % not to Buy the Bull. Stick with AI. IMO he should do is try some Lbar 5502 Spring 2013 EPDs
5502 he is trait leader with beefmasters in ww and yw
EPD +1.1 +39 +53 -24 -5 +1.0 +0.29 0.0 -0.07 -0.01
Acc .98 .99 .98 .95 - .96 .88 .87 .87 .88
Breed Avg. EPDs for 2011 Born Calves Click for Percentiles
EPD 0.2 9 14 2 6 0.2 0.04 0.0 0.00 0.01

Statistics: Number of Herds: 90, Progeny Analysed: 1108, Number of Dtrs: 268
, Lbar is good and reasonable priced. Casey 05-48 will not add sheath to animals with growth potential.

 

[slick4591]

Thanks for the info!

 

[ANAZAZI]

He wants a terminal bull. Piedmontese might be the answer he is looking for.