Balancer Bull..You folks tell me..UPDATE

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Keren my post was not to you and we all know what you meant by posting the pic, good butt and nice head. It was in reference to the limi looking like gv stuff ............



I would like to moooooooove on... :)
 
Keren i am sorry you feel like you are beating your head agin the wall. But i can't help but find these last post amusing. :banana: :banana:
 
Wow - somehow I got "dropped" from this thread. I liked the calf right from the git go - except I "questioned" his legs by the way he was standing.
Well, I have see updated pics of this bull & he is looking great - nothing post legged about him. Lots of guts & muscle with a NICE HEAD. Just like I like them.
I do not, never have, and probably never will want a BULLY looking CALF. I want a calf to look like a CALF. Of course, I breed every cow to produce FEMALES, and I look for BULLS that will produce good females. Big, bully heads mean calving difficulties in my world. I like long heads on a bull.
With our SA & NZ & Aussie influence, there has been tons of talk about EYE SET & BULLY CALVES. Maybe in Tx and southern states, breeders should be looking at eye set - but I have NEVER heard the description until Knersie explained his criteria. And, it might me very meaningful for extreme sunshine, but I never heard anyone referring to it here in USA. I found it extremely interesting, and probably very meaningful if you are trying to avoid eye problems. I don't and none of my customers (that I am aware of) have eye problems in our cattle. Not saying I have never treated pinkeye, but I don't consider our few incidenses as a problem. Obviously, with a breed like Herefore, that has a history of cancer eye & pink eye problems, this might be a great tool to utilize.
My "feminine" bulls turn out plenty "bully" for me as they mature.
 
A lot of it has to do with the climate here I guess but at least where I'm from people most definitely want their animals finished and gone by 18mths sometimes earlier. I used a term before that I found is actually exclusive to my state which is 'baby beef'. Also often we see a correlation between hooded eyes and temperament. See that limo bull of blackcowz has a good amount of masculinity. If you just saw the head you'd be able to pick it as a bull. I guess it's just another of those differences between countries.
 
Aussie - we want our steers in the freezer by 14-16 months of age weighing 1300-1400#. I put 6 or so every year on the Cornell Univ steer feedout program. We retain ownership. My purebred Simmental steers have topped the profit catagory each year. This year, we again had the top money making steer out of about 200 head (mostly crossbred steers), and our "group" was 2nd highest profit farm, even tho one went Select +, the rest Choice. So, even tho I am in the business to produce females, my males work very well in a feedlot.
This year: 5 steers, REA 13.8 - 15.2 (3 had 15+); YG 2.6 - 1.3; HCW 851#-913
These were born in Feb & March, marketed on 5-13 & 6-25
So, "feminine" bulls/steers do allright on the rail. :banana:
 
Holy smoke 3Way! Boy, this one got outta hand a little too quick. I think he has PLENTY muscle. Particularly with that rear shot @ 6 months. Take some later pics of him when he blooms a little and you might change some minds. Just don't say it's the same calf. ;-)
 
He sold yesterday at the Pot O Gold Sale in Olathe Colorado for $3100.00. I am having no luck posting a picture. All I really have is a picture of his head that some on here thought was not manly enuf, and a bad but shot.. I will have someone else post them.

He also passed his BSE so I guess he was, MANLY enuf. To be fair with a 72#BW and a -3.0 BW EPD he definately sold for a heifer bull. He did however gain right 4 lbs ADG for the last 60 days and weighed 1050 on sale day. BTW his ADJ weaning weight was 693. Due to circumstances I could not control this calf did not get any creep nor was he ever exposed to a feedbunk until the day he arrived at the TEST. Had he gained like that from the beginning I was told he might have topped the sale.

BTW the fact that they placed him second in the sale definately helped.
 
That last laugh is the best one, especially on the way to the bank, huh? Congrats, sounds like you did real good with him. Hope you can get a photo up.
 
Here are pics and 3WC can add all of the info to them .. All I can say is congrats , the numbers look great on the bull and he had a h#ll of a test. :D Too bad he's blk .... :lol2: :p :banana: :cowboy:

IMG00170-20100226-11241.jpg


IMG00172-20100226-11541.jpg


IMG00171-20100226-11251.jpg
 
Thanks HD for posting the pics for me. Every time I try to upload them is tells me I am over my quota for pictures and no matter how many I delete I still cannnot upload.

The first picture is my bull on the left. The second is not him but a full brother to his mother that sold for $2900. The third picture is a frontal shot he is # 92. He also had a half brother by the same sire Sexton Northern Improvement, that brought $3200.

My main reason for revisiting this thread is not to gloat but to possibly educate some of the newbies around here to get the message that with cattle things are not always as cut and dried as some here would have you believe.

I was told numerous times that he was not masculine enough at the age of 4 months to be anything but a good steer. What rubish. I knew his genetics and phenatype gave him an excellant chance to prove out to be a very good bull and in fact he did. Is he a big ole pallet headed terminal sire? No , of course not, but a good bull nevertheless. So before you let any of the so called experts around here(including me) give you too much advice, do your homework and make good well informed descisions........and who knows maybe you will fall into a bucket of crap and come out smelling like a rose like I did yesterday.

It also doesn't hurt to surround yourself with a few very knowledgable cattlemen and women that you can draw on for on the spot advice. In this case that's exactly what I did, in the form of a young lady who, at the tender age of 30 has more knowledge and good instincts when it comes to cattle than most 60yr olds I know. If I had listened to the Australian contigent here this calf would be on his way to an audition for CAB right about now.
 
:banana: Thank you!
We don't, never have, & probably never will want a bull CALF to look masculine. We are in the business to produce breeding stock, mainly females, but our bulls are sold for replacement breeding stock, not terminal offspring. We want bulls that will be easy calving, with lots of growth and maternal traits. To us, that does NOT go hand in hand with a bully looking calf.
Congratulations!!!
 
This has been a very interesting and revealing thread!

Just for the interest of the "newbies", (and the NOT so new "newbies") who happen to be up-to-date on this thread, - this is a prime example of the importance of EDUCATION for the purpose of IMPROVEMENT of our seedstock selection processes! The beef cattle genetic influences are so critical in determining the 'bottom line' results of the beef business that it is imperative that KNOWLEDGE of the BU$INE$$ is imperative, not 'just handy to have'. And even with all of the facts at your disposal, it is still a crap shoot insofar as determining the ultimate results at the end of the day.

Would that every breeder could manage to produce animals as desirable as 3waycross did with this example!

Congratulations Vic!

DOC HARRIS
 
His mother is bred to this bull for a March calf. He has better numbers than the Northern Improvement son but is not as typey. aged 18 months. For personal reasons I can't post his Reg number.

DSCF0042_edited.jpg
 
3waycross":3c1vy0k3 said:
Thanks HD for posting the pics for me. Every time I try to upload them is tells me I am over my quota for pictures and no matter how many I delete I still cannnot upload.

The first picture is my bull on the left. The second is not him but a full brother to his mother that sold for $2900. The third picture is a frontal shot he is # 92. He also had a half brother by the same sire Sexton Northern Improvement, that brought $3200.

My main reason for revisiting this thread is not to gloat but to possibly educate some of the newbies around here to get the message that with cattle things are not always as cut and dried as some here would have you believe.

I was told numerous times that he was not masculine enough at the age of 4 months to be anything but a good steer. What rubish. I knew his genetics and phenatype gave him an excellant chance to prove out to be a very good bull and in fact he did. Is he a big ole pallet headed terminal sire? No , of course not, but a good bull nevertheless. So before you let any of the so called experts around here(including me) give you too much advice, do your homework and make good well informed descisions........and who knows maybe you will fall into a bucket of crap and come out smelling like a rose like I did yesterday.

It also doesn't hurt to surround yourself with a few very knowledgable cattlemen and women that you can draw on for on the spot advice. In this case that's exactly what I did, in the form of a young lady who, at the tender age of 30 has more knowledge and good instincts when it comes to cattle than most 60yr olds I know. If I had listened to the Australian contigent here this calf would be on his way to an audition for CAB right about now.

Congratulations - you sold a bull with adequate structure and above average marbling for a very good price. As plenty of people do.

I never presumed to tell you what to do with him 3way, I told you what I PERSONALLY would do with him. After all, you did ask for opinions. Everybody's breeding programs are different, for mine he would not have stayed a bull because masculinity is high on my list. Luckily for him, he was born into your program and gets to live a long happy life :lol2:

"My main reason for revisiting this thread is not to gloat but to possibly educate some of the newbies around here to get the message that with cattle things are not always as cut and dried as some here would have you believe."

How thoughtful of you. I dont really need your education though. I was well aware before this thread that a bull with acceptable structure and good muscling can sell well. I could have done this a hundred times. Our calves are in high demand both locally and interstate that I could sell every bull calf born as a herd sire. But as I said, structure and muscle isnt enough for me. I want that added bit more. And so we keep very few bulls as bulls.

Congratulations anyway, always nice to get a good result in a bull sale
 
Keren

I wrote you a big long response , even posted it, then decided you are not worth the argument. So I will say the two most important things and then let it go.

#1 The education wasn't for you. Heck you already know it all and have the most amazing STUD in Australia. Every bull calf born is a herdsire. WOW :tiphat: It was for the newbies who might believe every word you say and make descisions based on YOUR OPINION.

#2 He was more than adequate and you know it after seeing the late summer picture. He not only had structure and muscle but VERY GOOD EPD's. If he was just ADEQUATE he would not have sold in the top 20% in the sale out of 110 Bulls.

For the record a really appropriate response would have been:Wow did that calf ever fool me. He turned out to be a dandy. Congrats.
 

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