Balancer Bull..You folks tell me..UPDATE

[alacattleman]

what about calve's with long bodies coarse shoulders and broad hips reacon they would lock up somewhere in all that length

 

[3waycross]

what about calve's with long bodies coarse shoulders and broad hips reacon they would lock up somewhere in all that length

Naw you just have to unscrew them. They pop right out.

 

[HerefordSire]

Please don't misunderstand me....

Length is very valuable because the maximim width of a calf is usually spread out over the same weight. So a 100 pound sausage might deliver easier than an 90 pound bowling ball with the same size pelvis and genstation length, etc. This 10 pounds may not seem like much money but it could be. Since WW and BW are highly correlated scientificly, 10% on the bottom usually equates to 10% on the top. Therefore, if we are referring to 100 head, for example, and you generate 550 pounds of meat relative to 500 pounds of meat @ $2.00 per pound, then that is $10K, correct?

novatech...give me some time and I willl see what I can find.

 

[alacattleman]

Please don't misunderstand me....

Length is very valuable because the maximim width of a calf is usually spread out over the same weight. So a 100 pound sausage might deliver easier than an 90 pound bowling ball with the same size pelvis and genstation length, etc. This 10 pounds may not seem like much money but it could be. Since WW and BW are highly correlated scientificly, 10% on the bottom usually equates to 10% on the top. Therefore, if we are referring to 100 head, for example, and you generate 550 pounds of meat relative to 500 pounds of meat @ $2.00 per pound, then that is $10K, correct?

novatech...give me some time and I willl see what I can find.

you mean you cant put you finger on it, your just hopein' its there to back you up :shock:

 

[hillsdown]

In my experience pelvic area and others that have been mentioned play the main roll, BUT when you feed the last month of 2-3 months of gestation in -40 weather , your birth weights are going to go way up. I also find deep/thick cows have less problems during calving as well.

 

[novatech]

Please don't misunderstand me....

Length is very valuable because the maximim width of a calf is usually spread out over the same weight. So a 100 pound sausage might deliver easier than an 90 pound bowling ball with the same size pelvis and genstation length, etc. This 10 pounds may not seem like much money but it could be. Since WW and BW are highly correlated scientificly, 10% on the bottom usually equates to 10% on the top. Therefore, if we are referring to 100 head, for example, and you generate 550 pounds of meat relative to 500 pounds of meat @ $2.00 per pound, then that is $10K, correct?

novatech...give me some time and I willl see what I can find.

I'm going to have to disagree with you on this. It is the shoulders that usually will cause the problem, no matter what the length.
WW and BW may be highly correlated but by looking at some of the bulls posted on some of the Hereford threads one can produce calve with low birth weights and high weaning weights.
$2.00 a lb. is one of my fantasies, but I get the point.
I do like a long bodied cow. More choice cuts, more capacity, more room for the calf. I like a long bodied calf for the first two reasons.
Sorry folks, did not mean to steal the thread.

 

[HerefordSire]

Please don't misunderstand me....

Length is very valuable because the maximim width of a calf is usually spread out over the same weight. So a 100 pound sausage might deliver easier than an 90 pound bowling ball with the same size pelvis and genstation length, etc. This 10 pounds may not seem like much money but it could be. Since WW and BW are highly correlated scientificly, 10% on the bottom usually equates to 10% on the top. Therefore, if we are referring to 100 head, for example, and you generate 550 pounds of meat relative to 500 pounds of meat @ $2.00 per pound, then that is $10K, correct?

novatech...give me some time and I willl see what I can find.

I'm going to have to disagree with you on this. It is the shoulders that usually will cause the problem, no matter what the length.
WW and BW may be highly correlated but by looking at some of the bulls posted on some of the Hereford threads one can produce calve with low birth weights and high weaning weights.
$2.00 a lb. is one of my fantasies, but I get the point.
I do like a long bodied cow. More choice cuts, more capacity, more room for the calf. I like a long bodied calf for the first two reasons.

Sorry folks, did not mean to steal the thread.

Fair enough novatech. I prefer very long bulls. Cows can have high capacity and be short lengthed if necessary but prefer long. I have no use for a short bull. 3waycross has bred a long calf that is 25% underweight the sale limit he chooses to attend. He mentioned a 92 pound calf he had to cut that did not make the sale limit. This is a 27% variance in birthwieghts in only two calves that he mentioned. This makes me think he is leaving money on the table by not having uniform calves which could be produced by narrowing the gene pool through linebreeding. However, no other information has been provided to believe this possibility.

 

[hillsdown]

 This makes me think he is leaving money on the table by not having uniform calves which could be produced by narrowing the gene pool through [b]linebreeding[/b]. However, no other information has been provided to believe this possibility.

Thank you for this statement, as it confirms my original thoughts about what you say...

I line breed still and did it tons in dairy and you have know clue as to what you are talking about,,,,,, as usual..


You have your perfect herd on paper; and those than can, will do so in real life.

Now so I do not get so p3ssed at what you say I will ignore you when it come to breeds genetics and cattle in general and you can reciprocate..

 

[novatech]

Fair enough novatech. I prefer very long bulls. Cows can have high capacity and be short lengthed if necessary but prefer long. I have no use for a short bull. 3waycross has bred a long calf that is 25% underweight the sale limit he chooses to attend. He mentioned a 92 pound calf he had to cut that did not make the sale limit. This is a 27% variance in birthwieghts in only two calves that he mentioned. This makes me think he is leaving money on the table by not having uniform calves which could be produced by narrowing the gene pool through linebreeding. However, no other information has been provided to believe this possibility.

Here I go following another topic just brought up. Linebreeding will often times result in smaller progeny. The reason is that there is no heterosis. Even though the result may be a smaller individual, using these line breds with an outcross can result in spectacular results. Which may only last 1 geneation. At least this is my understanding. Better talk to people that know more about genetics than me.

 

[ANAZAZI]

A long cow is more likely to produce a long calf than a short cow.
So does a long bull.
Long calf eqals more calf per calving difficulty.
More calf (higher birth weight) means more growth.
Long animal means more expensive cuts.
Blonde daquitaine has the anwers to this!

 

[Keren]

wow, I spend 1 day away and this turns into a monster thread :lol2:

I NEED TO CLARIFY!

I did not say the red bull I posted was better than this one; I did not say he was structurally correct, nor did I say he was deep.

I posted his picture as an example of breeding for MASCULINITY AS WELL AS BUTT.

The red calf has both a bully head and a big butt. Yes, he is older than the black calf. He is right on 10 mths old. So he's 4 mths older than the black bull. But, I cant see the black bull developing that level of masculinity in 4 mths time.

 

[3waycross]

wow, I spend 1 day away and this turns into a monster thread :lol2:

I NEED TO CLARIFY!

I did not say the red bull I posted was better than this one; I did not say he was structurally correct, nor did I say he was deep.

I posted his picture as an example of breeding for MASCULINITY AS WELL AS BUTT.

The red calf has both a bully head and a big butt. Yes, he is older than the black calf. He is right on 10 mths old. So he's 4 mths older than the black bull. But, I cant see the black bull developing that level of masculinity in 4 mths time.

Keren
Thanks for that clarification. Even if it is somewhat apples to oranges, to my little bull. I will tell you what I'll do. I will take a picture of him in another month and then one just before he goes to test in Oct. If things go well I may try to even get a picture @ 10 months in Dec. That may be tough since he will be 120 miles away over two passes, but for you I will try.

I did learn a lot about cattle photography from this thread. I went out yesterday and took some pictures of him from different angles and yes it makes a difference how and at what angle you take the picture. It also helps to use a camera instead of a phone. I ended up with a couple that almost make him look like a REAL bull.

 

[mnmtranching]

how bout breeding for both? granted this calf is a touch older than yours

I have nothing against Limousine cattle. This is not promoting the breed.

 

[aussie_cowgirl]

Lucky she wasn't trying to promote them. Also it's a Gelbvieh, the photo is from a random gelbvieh site.

 

[alacattleman]

what was it caustic use too call em,, german limousines :cowboy:

 

[aussie_cowgirl]

what was it caustic use too call em,, german limousines :cowboy:

Pretty much. I've been caught out before. Just when I have something to discriminate on I see one that blows my differentiation out of the water.

 

[mnmtranching]

Lucky she wasn't trying to promote them. Also it's a Gelbvieh, the photo is from a random gelbvieh site.

Sorry Gelbvieh people. I've seen plenty of fine quality Gelbvieh cattle. Thought that this is what the Limmi breeders were shooting for.

 

[aussie_cowgirl]

Lucky she wasn't trying to promote them. Also it's a Gelbvieh, the photo is from a random gelbvieh site.

Sorry Gelbvieh people. I've seen plenty of fine quality Gelbvieh cattle. Thought that this is what the Limmi breeders were shooting for.

The other cattle on the site aren't that impressive don't worry. I sure hope Limo breeders just keep on keeping on.

 

[hillsdown]

Lucky she wasn't trying to promote them. Also it's a Gelbvieh, the photo is from a random gelbvieh site.

GV and limi do get mistaken for each other often. So do alot of other breeds ,especially since some that should be gold in color or light, strive to be dark red or blk; instead of striving to just produce the best possible genetics within the breed. That said,,, going back to some PB GV's,,,,,,, they were UGLY ... 8)

That may be why I always loved my Holsteins, they are hard to mistake for something else.. ;-)

The main thing I am leary about with the GV pic posted by Keren is his frame, he just may be too big. BUT I have also seen them at this age do a 180 and instead of frame they get deep, thick and really muscular. I was worried about my guy too, but he already is getting longer, not taller, and much deeper ,as well as putting some very well placed muscle on him. Wish, I was responsible for his genetics but I bought his dam as a calf and have managed to AI her every year so that is all that I have contributed. One day maybe my prefix will be on a good AI sire.

3way post him again when he is weened and gone into test. I have regretted banding some, because once "they" are gone "they" are gone for good. No takesy backsies. :lol2:

 

[Keren]

AAAAARRRRRGHHHHH!

How. many. times. do. I. need. to. say. it.

I am aware of the structural problems of the red calf, the fact that he has no depth, capacity etc.

I DID NOT POST THE RED CALF AS AN EXAMPLE OF AN ANIMAL THAT WAS SUPERIOR TO THE BLACK CALF.

I posted the red calf to show that you can have both MASCULINITY (ie. bully head) and MUSCLE (ie. butt) in a young bull calf.