Assisted Calves

[randiliana]

So here is a question for all you purebred guys. When you pull a calf when, what do you report as assisted, or what does the breed registry require?

So, DH had a conversation with a local breeder about when they have to report a calf as assisted. Now, I don't know if this is a breed requirement, or just their personal opinion, but what he said was they only reported calves where the assist was done with a mechanical calf puller.

Now, to me this is wrong, and very misleading. In our commercial herd, anything that we have to help the cow with is marked down as some sort of assistance. Might be just as a malpresentation, Convenience Assist or right up to a Hard pull (puller required) or C-section. And I have wondered a lot of times at some of the bull sale catalogues where there are bulls out of first calvers, with fairly large BW, but never even 1 assist.

The thing is I have read numerous articles on dystocia and what they all seem to say, is that if 2 grown men cannot pull a calf (without the puller) then it is too big(discussion for another thread, I don't necessarily believe this). But, 2 grown men can put a lot of pulling power into pulling a calf! Heck, even one man can. I know I don't have the pulling ability of DH! And really, regardless of whether it takes one person, two people, ten or the use of a calf puller to get the calf out, she required assistance and it should be reported as such! Every calving book I own has at least 4 choice in the CE column, Unassisted, Easy, Hard and Surgery.

 

[Supa Dexta]

Not a PB guy, but my spread sheet has a drop down menu under the 'assisted' column:
- No
- Pulled (and you can note mechanical or not and how hard of pull or any other specifics)
- Vet
- Dead

I also have a metal pole I sometimes use over the puller for the in between pulls. Chain its feet and wrap around the pole, and set pole into ground or bedding pack, and then lean into it with my shoulder, using it as a lever. It gives me a mechanical advantage, but doesnt require the space of a puller plus its just quick and easy to set up.

edit: found this pic, as strange as it is, where the chain would be by his left hand and the calfs feet back by his right knee

http://stevehuston.com/user/files/1680/ ... 4_full.jpg

 

[branguscowgirl]

Brangus requires documentation. Now whether people are honest or not, no way to know. I report mine.

 

[randiliana]

My assisted column has
-Unassisted
-Easy Pull
-Hard Pull
-Malpresentation
-Backwards
-Cesarean
-Twin

 

[slick4591]

Mine has a drop down also:

Unassisted
Easy Pull
Hard Pull
C-Sec
DOA
Induced/Premature

 

[gizmom]

I use the AIMS program through the Angus Association. The report offers a selection for Calving ease which includes:

0- Not Reported
1- No Assistance
2 - Some Assistance
3- Mechanical Assistance
4- Caesarean section
5- Abnormal delivery

The program also offers a selection for Birth Code which includes 6 different selections that include:

0-Not reported
1- Stillborn/Full Term
2- Died at birth - defect
3- died at birth - other
4- born alive died before weaning - disease
5- born alive died before weaning - other
6- calf sold
7 born alive died before weaning - weather

gizmom

 

[Nesikep]

I don't have a registry to report to, but I do keep track of assistance.. I often give a little hand just out of convenience and to speed things up so I can get on with other things.. and it's duly noted.

 

[dun]

The American Red Angus Association uses
1- No Difficulty,No Assistance
2 - Minor Difficulty,Some Assistance
3- Major Diddiculty Usually Mechanical Assistance
4- Caesarean section or other surgery
5- Abnormal presentation

 

[redcowsrule33]

Simmental association:

CE (Calving Ease) – Indicates how easily calf was born *Up to 2 digits can be designated
Primary Codes
1 = Born Unassisted
2 = Easy Pull
3 = Hard Pull
4 = Cesarean
5 = Abnormal Presentation

Secondary Codes
6 = Dead on Arrival
7 = Premature
This code indicates how easily a calf was born. Every calf should have a primary code. In some cases 2 codes may apply; report a primary code first followed by another primary code or a secondary code. If a calf's birth was unobserved, use a 1 as the primary code. If a calf was dead on arrival, report the appropriate primary code followed by a 6 for dead on arrival. Examples:Use 36 to indicate a hard pull and dead on arrival. Use a 52 to indicate an abnormal presentation and easy pull.

I report all of mine, but no doubt others don't.

 

[hillsdown]

I report mine honestly and I know the majority of the GV breeders do as well. I will say though that most breeders who do select wisely in regards to type and epd's do not have a lot of train wrecks but accidents do happen so they will occasionally occur no matter how experienced a producer you are. I had my very first c-section in a beefer this year, even though her pelvic measurement was right on track last fall. She was bred to a calving ease bull of +16 and came from a family with large pelvic scores. At 3:45 am when we were done in -20C weather our conversation ended with what Dr. Paul's genetics teacher told his 4 year vet class ( I am summarizing). "This is all scientific but in the end when dealing with living creatures and genetics it can just be a crap shoot at knowing what you will get."

What benefit would it be to lie about your herds epd's as far as calving ease and birth weight if you are establishing and maintaining an honest reputation as a reliable breeder.

If you sell bulls and heifers that you have "fudged" the books on you will get caught. One time may be an accident, but multiple hard pulls or a train wreck will happen eventually, and you will be held accountable by the breed association and the members as well as al of your commercial clients.

 

[MO_cows]

All the different breeds represented in this thread have an option for "easy pull" or "Slight Assistance" or whatever. Every registration application I have ever seen, from several different breeds, all had a similar list of options to choose from for calving ease. So your neighbor is being dishonest by not reporting "hand pulls". Not to mention fudging up the epd's for their breed.

 

[Victoria]

Canadian Angus has the following to be filled in when registering a calf:
U - Unassisted
E- Easy Hand-pulled
H- Hard, hand or mechanical delivery
M- Malpresentation, assisted
S - Surgical, Cesarean section birth

So, yes, they are definitely asking about easy pulls as well, not just ones done with a calf puller.