Any of you guys worried about DEFLATION

Help Support CattleToday:

WichitaLineMan

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 9, 2009
Messages
707
Reaction score
0
and what it would do to the cattle market?

The bond market has been really acting weird as of late.

Fundamentally in normal times I couldn't paint a rosier picture for the cattle market: Export markets re-opening. Weak Dollar. Cow Herd at lowest levels in OVER HALF A CENTURY. Continued population growth.

But something is nagging at me.
 
Some commodities need to deflate in price. For instance "half price" houses in California - they need to delfate a whole lot more. $180 thousand for a 30 year old travel trailer on a 1/8 acre lot annotated "SOLD" in the ad is complete insanity, in my opinion of course. Just imagine what that could do to property tax valuations on a normal home.

Tuesday I sold a few head. Some heifers that I have finally decided not to make cows out of were culled. I had a good 4 year old cow that was light on the udder so she went. Threw in some steers too. I decided to sit through the auction although I was not buying. Prices were decent. It is too bad I didn't have some packer bulls there because some of them went in the low 90's. Those prices are wonderful in my opinion (again).

The cattle market still seems upside down to me although corn prices have dropped here. 7, 8, and 9 weight heifers and steers are bringing excellent money.

Last Friday I bought some more land. If land prices deflate, I'll be jumping on a lot more of it.

A whole lot of folks were living beyond their means back during periodic booms. In the current situation, some of those folks have had to come back down to reality. I never could understand how folks thought they could borrow themselves out of debt.
 
I think the worst of this economic mess will be outside of agriculture. Two very common sense reasons:1) Food doesn't go out of style in hard times. 2) Agriculture hasn't seen as much inflation over the last 30 years as most other sectors of the economy have, so we simply don't have as far to fall...if things really do fall. To sum up: Agriculture is the place to be.
 
alexfarms":3gk8kzht said:
I think the worst of this economic mess will be outside of agriculture. Two very common sense reasons:1) Food doesn't go out of style in hard times. 2) Agriculture hasn't seen as much inflation over the last 30 years as most other sectors of the economy have, so we simply don't have as far to fall...if things really do fall. To sum up: Agriculture is the place to be.

I agree with that 100% BUT what about investors and speculators who are soured on stocks and bonds playing with the ag sector? Do you think they can have enough impact to set up yet another bubble to burst?
 
No, I am not worried about deflation. I think a long, slow, gradual improvement in economic conditions is underway. Not fast enough for some but more stable in the long run. As said above, we have a lot of folks that need to learn there is no free lunch. That is painful but a lesson well learned. You can't have tax cuts, fight two wars and increase government spending and pay for it by borrowing from China as has happened over the past 10 years without needing a correction. I believe interest rates will gradually climb, rewarding savers as they should be. I feel the folks in charge have a much better handle on things than in the past decade. jmho. Jim
 
I"m still trying to figure out "who's in charge". Appears to be an idiot that definitely doesn't believe in borrowing yourself out of debt but definitely believes in borrowing, spending, taxing forget about the debit accumulation and let the chips fall where they may. Totally unqualified for the job.
 
I think it is funny how the national debt always becomes a hot topic every so often but nothing ever happens other than it just keeps growing. It just depends on who wants to make it an issue. Most news events are old news, its just its turn to become news worthy.
 
>>>WASHINGTON (AP) -- Inventories held by wholesalers rose for a fifth consecutive month in May but sales fell for the first time in more than a year, sending a mixed signal about the strength of the recovery.

The Commerce Department says wholesale inventories rose 0.5 percent in May but sales dropped by 0.3 percent. It was the first decline for sales since March of 2009.

The May sales decline is the latest sign that the economic recovery could be losing momentum as it enters the second half of this year. Weakness in sales could discourage businesses from boosting their orders. That would translate into a slowdown in factory production.<<<<
 
Deflation has been an ongoing event now for quite some time but it doesn't impact everything at the same time.

Housing has deflated significantly, credit/debt has deflated significantly, wages have as well. We are in an ongoing debt deflation in everything outside of gov't debt and even that growth is starting to stagnate. It took a very long time to build all this up, it will likely take a long time to unwind it. The Dollar has been one of the strongest markets this year, that's a clear deflationary pressure. European debt markets are another clear deflationary sign, securitized products are absolutely dead, another deflationary market.

And now every dollar of additional debt is resulting in at best a flat gdp and at times a negative return on each incremental dollar of gov't debt.

Japan wasted trillions of dollars over 20 years and they are still in an off and on recession.

Eventually inflation will come (after deflation) but generally speaking you need two things for that to happen; cheap enough prices to encourage money to move out of savings and into new credit and spending (apparently cheaper houses haven't triggered this in that market) or you need an absolute crisis of confidence in the nations currency and currently the Dollar is one of the world's strongest currencies and in apparent short supply as debts are destroyed and those dollars never really existed on the balance sheet as assumed.

How and when this affects Cattle is an unknown but keep in mind that no matter how small the cattle herd is it winds up as someone's dinner and current signs show a consumer under several deflationary pressures. I am not sure how large or small the cattle herd was in the 1930's but the government still paid to have cattle and hogs killed and burned or buried to try and support prices and that didn't work. We are very lucky so far.
 
Certain items such as housing in many over heated areas NEEDS to deflate back to more rational levels. The idea of paying 3/4 of a million dollars for a bungalow house in some areas is ludicrous given incomes.

While the folks betting on housing constantly increasing and rolling houses financed by interest-only mortgages or negative amortization mortgages don't want to see it, "deflation" to more realistic shelter-value based housing prices is a long term positive thing. Lenders making silly loans to people who can't afford them just so they can clear a quick commission selling them as derivatives just had to stop somewhere.

The inventory numbers quoted above and I believe certain areas of the cattle market (higher priced cuts) are more a function of the job market rather housing deflation. This shows up in the choice/select spread.

Jim
 
The whole world is an economic mess. It was a long time in coming, but now things are happening very fast.
As deflationary pressures build, as they have been, the idiot powers that be will do all they can to fight it. Their jobs depend on it. But they don't know what to do about it. They will do all they can to pump up the economy with fiat dollars in order to keep buying votes. This will cause more debt and be inflationary. But they are close to the end of their rope. So the next thing will probably be deflation.
Thing are so messed up with their frantically trying to find an easy way out of the mess that there is no telling what they will do.

Best case would be a deflationary depression.
Worst case would be an inflationary depression.

As to cattle/agriculture---As I have said before, I listen carefully to what Jim Rogers says. He says agriculture is the place to be in the not too distant future because of a world food shortage.
 
The "powers that be" need to find more effective ways to combat deflation. Giving the money to banks at .25% and allowing them to buy treasuries at 3% is not the way to stimulate the economy. The banks are unwilling to lend and lots of consumers and businesses are unwilling to borrow. This is where the term: "Pushing on a string" comes in to play.

The more direct route is for the "powers that be" to directly put money in the consumer's hands. Vis-a-vis direct cash payments.
 
Seventeen Indicators Showing The Economy is About to Collapse

Posted: 08 Jul 2010 01:26 PM PDT
President Obama and his administration has been traveling the country trying to pass along the message to voters about how effective their $787 (now $825 billion+) recovery plan has been. They are calling the effort an effort "recovery summer." Perhaps a better name for it would be the Economy's a Bummer. In fact the real story is the stream of bad news saying the economy is heading for a double-dip recession, not a recovery.

Actually things may not be pointing to a recession but worse, a depression. Here are seventeen indications that the economy is about to go from bad to worse:

* U.S. Treasury yields have dropped to stunning new lows. So why are they so low? Well, it is because so many investors are anticipating that we are headed into a deflationary period. In fact, many economists are warning that the fact that Treasury yields are so low is one of the clearest signs that economic trouble is ahead.

* The Conference Board's Consumer Confidence Index declined sharply to 52.9 in June. Most economists had expected that the figure for June would be somewhere around 62. If consumers aren't confident they won't be spending money. If American consumers don't start spending money soon a lot of American retailers are going to go belly up.

* The M3 money supply plunged at a 9.6 percent annual rate during the first quarter of 2010. If the M3 keeps declining at that kind of a rate it is going to put extreme deflationary pressure on the U.S. economy.

* Many economists are now warning that the "China investment bubble" is about to burst. In fact, Kenneth Rogoff, Harvard University professor and former chief economist of the International Monetary Fund, claims that China's property market is beginning a "collapse" that will send a shockwave across the globe.

* Nouriel Roubini is warning that Europe's economy could stop growing as soon as this year. Back in 2007 and 2008, the U.S. was the epicenter of the financial crisis, but many analysts believe that it will be Europe this time around.

* Vacancies and lease rates at U.S. shopping centers continued to get worse during the second quarter of 2010. If things don't pick up soon will we see half empty shopping malls by the time Christmas rolls around?

* Some analysts are warning that if BP goes under as a result of the Gulf of Mexico oil spill that it could cause the total collapse of the worldwide derivatives market and unleash a liquidity crisis unlike anything the world financial system has ever seen.

* Things are so bad at the state level in the U.S. that economist Mark Zandi is projecting that up to 400,000 workers could lose their jobs in the next year as states, counties and cities struggle with lower tax revenues and significantly reduced federal funding.

* Two Federal Reserve officials recently said that U.S. unemployment is likely to stay high for a long time. Normally Fed officials are some of the biggest cheerleaders for the economy. If they are not optimistic about the employment situation that is a very bad sign.

* Analysts are warning that the "death cross" is coming. The Standard & Poor's 500 50-day moving average is about to cross beneath the 200-day moving average, and many economists say that this is a very strong indication that a new recession is about to begin.

* One prominent trader says that the Dow Jones Industrial Average is repeating a pattern that appeared just before financial markets collapsed during the Great Depression.

* Ambrose Evans-Pritchard, one of the most respected financial columnists in the world, really raised eyebrows recently when he declared that this "really is starting to feel like 1932".

* In the month of May, sales of new homes in the United States dropped to the lowest level on record.

* The National Association of Realtors recently announced that its seasonally adjusted index of sales agreements for previously occupied homes dropped 30 percent in May.

* Banks in the U.K. are being instructed to hoard cash in preparation for the next financial crisis.

* The average duration of unemployment in the United States has risen to an all-time high. Millions of unemployed Americans are fighting off deep despair and depression as they find it nearly impossible to find a decent job.

* Small and mid-size banks across the United States are failing at a rapidly accelerating pace. The truth is that the entire U.S. banking system is teetering on the brink of disaster.

* At this point just about everyone can see the writing on the wall. Literally dozens of top economists and world leaders are declaring that we are likely to enter the second leg of a "double-dip recession" at some point over the next twelve months.

Even the Democrats are about to abandon ship:

Dean Baker, co-director of the left-leaning Center for Economic and Policy Research, said Obama has himself to blame for the fact that so many Americans do not appreciate the steps Obama took to resurrect the economy.

...
"I don't really see any good stories for them in the near future," said Baker.

He pointed to the housing market as one reason for pessimism, but also noted that budget constraints are expected to lead state and local governments to lay off workers, exacerbating an already brutal labor market.

"If anything, it's likely to get worse," he said of the economy.

Fasten your seat belts folks, the Economy is going to get a lot bumpier.
Please email me at [email protected] to be put onto my mailing list. Feel free to reproduce any article but please link back to http://yidwithlid.blogspot.com
 
a customer of ours, an ex GM employee, retired was up in detroit last week brought back a wayne county paper that was about 2 or better inchs thick of solid foreclosures.. now that was scarey
 
I only worry about deflation on my tractor front tires, Always having to air them up......

If I were deeply in debt, for my farm, my house, my tractor, my truck, my car,my 4 wheelers, had lots of money in non-real things( stocks, bond, toys, boats, time shares) deflation could be a problem...I live with in my means, and my investments are not paper, have guns and ammo, and cash reserve to carry me for awhile, and food stores both canned and on the hoof....I AM A SOUTHERN , and used to hard times, I am prepared.....
 

Latest posts

Top