Animal welfare rules are coming

[franseen]

To add to that reply. With a lot of the stuff we buy now days you can see it is sold for overuse. The more we use a product. The more profit the manufacturer sees. I think many of the drugs we use are sold with directions for overuse. The same goes with the amount of antibiotics in feed. You see advertisements that say "Now with 33% more fill in the blank" the price on the product is higher and the consumer just bought more of something that is unnessary. Great from an advertising prospective. Bad for the unwary consumer. My opinion is use as little antibiotics as possible. Let the animal build its own immune system. The way nature intended it to.

 

[buckaroo_bif]

I am not a real expert as probably none of us are on anything. We are farmers and ranchers - The Jack of all Trades. However to help stop a problem such as this we need to be heard. Farmers seemed to be a easy group to forget before this last election. To myself it seemed to be qutie prevelant why our veiws should be valued. The election seemed to be won on states with smaller populations - more rural states. Many not all of us live in a more rural area. Its hard to be a farmer and not be in the country. Therefore politicians should very willing to listen to a once silent majority. Let your representatives know why they are in office. I know it takes time and seems pointless, but it may prove worth it in the future. Also if you get the newspaper and see an outdoor enthusiat's activity being put down in an unfair manner stick up for them. Right your own letter to the editor. State that you believe in stopping a problem before it starts. Just think what a mess we would have it we didn't have hunters and trappers. Wildlife populations would skyrocket. With no control wildlife would decimate their own habitat and quickly try to move even farther in on our farmland. I see what deer and turkeys do each year to our crops and I am glad I can buy a license and harvest what the law allows me. Imagine what coyote populations would do if we had no predator hunters. Our calf crop would feel the toll. You need to get out and vote also. Kudos to you that already do. Others that don't regularily get out there. I am guilty too, but voting is much more powerful than most realize. Support outdoorsmen. They will support us. In our area about 95% of the land they use is privately owned. Most owned by farmers. I guess I am trying to say, BE HEARD. It does nothing to sit by and think about what you should do. We all know that. We couldn't farm or ranch if we didn't take action. Take action to ensure we can farm and ranch for our children's children's grandchildren.

That's all well and good Franseen but I have a bit of a problem welcoming hunters and supporting them, Too many of them are wealthy pompous snobs that hunt in our territory. They act like we OWE them the right to hunt and if they want to cut a fence or leave a gate it's no big deal like they could give a hoot. I guess too put it bluntly they are the lesser of two evils. BUT the real problem I have is when they start running up land prices by paying 5 times what it is worth, well i get a bit perturbed.
I live in the sand hills of Oklahoma. Beautiful country and excellent hunting. Good grass too for cattle. Its not worth anything else. You take a hard working farmer wants to buy a piece of property at action and he can pay x ammount of dollars. Then there is the rich snooty lawyer standing there who can pay a bigger x ammount of dollars and he don't care What he has to pay he is going to buy it.! Then they won't rent it out for grass. They just sit on it and bring 40 of their buddies and then another 40 buddies.
Call me a cynical be nice I don't really care but I say screw em.
They belong in the city.! Let em stay in the city.!
If we get overun with wildlife the I'll deal with it myself.

bif

 

[Crowderfarms]

Buckaroo_Bif,
I sympathize with a lot of what you are saying. We have the same problems here with a group of Lawyers, or other professionals buying places to hunt on.They plant a few food plots, build a bunch of stands, and usually after opening weekend they quit if they get skunked. Most do belong in town, we for one, due to mis-use of our farms by individuals,and more so for liability reasons do not permit ANY hunting on our land. Besides we hunt it ourselves. But there is a majority of folks that have no respect for other's property.But as Hunters and Fishermen go, I support them,let them hunt on public land if available,and the more affluent either buy their own place or lease it. What I'm saying is they're not all bad. Just don't want it on my land.

 

[buckaroo_bif]

Well I went a bit far Crowder . They aren't all bad. I'm a very fair man I believe. If someone respects me and is fair to me I will return it. But they's always gotta be a bunch of bad apples that spoil the whole bunch.
They just left a bad taste in my mouth this last hunting season. And it gets worse every year.
bif

 

[Crowderfarms]

We let a few hunt several years ago, do have to brag we have some awesome Deer and Turkey Hunting here, These guys went and told the whole country about game on our place, and the next thing I knew folks were calling and showing up wanting to hunt, that I'd never seen.Next thing when you tell them no, even in a polite way, you're the horses ass. Along with liability, it changed how I felt about giving permission to hunt. I've worked hard a long time and I'm not going to lose what I have. Heard a few horror stories, about places being lost to lawsuits involving hunters.Especially one that fell out of a stand. Took a man's farm, and he was a trespasser.

 

[buckaroo_bif]

Well! That's the kind of thing I'm talking about Crowder. You can't let just one hunt they wanna bring 40 more with them. It gets out of control. A few years ago it wasn't so bad but now there is a deer stand everywhere you look and the hunter population is getting too big for comfort. There are a few guys that have been coming up to hunt for years. And they are decent men. Just too many of them are Not.
bif

 

[Crowderfarms]

Most all of us in this general vicinity, don't allow Hunting. Cows have been shot, fences cut,etc. I have good friends though that will let just about anyone who asks, hunt their farms. Guess that they're a little more accomodating than me.Maybe cause they're from the old school and feel no one would do anything if an injury or death occured on the property. My guard stays up when letting a stranger use my resources.Let a fellow fish a pond one time, said he was a "catch and release man" got home and he had at least 20 Catfish in buckets. sent him packing!

 

[Bama]

On behalf of hunters I have to agree with you. I am a hunter. I have seen a lot of the things you are talking about. I see much more of the good things hunters do. They just don't make the news. I was hunting once in Crested Butte Co. I had hiked up a very steep hill. I dring a Dr. Pepper and placed the can in a wedge in a rock. I had hunted there lots of times and that rock was a nice place to take a break. Anyway after hunting all day I went back by the rock to pick up the can to carry out. Someone else had already taken it out. That said a lot for the hunters in that area. I also have tracked a wounded elk across posted land. We got permission from the land owner. We offered him some of the elk and he was amazed that we would even stop to ask him before crossing his property. He didn't take any of the elk but invited us to hunt his place the next year. I hunt some private land in other states as well. I have found if you treat the land as you would treat your own most of them are happy. Once I stopped the truck to walk a few miles. The landowner was impressed that I stopped there. I told him I didn't want to cut a rut in the washout. He said he had never had anyone do that before.
On the other hand I don't let but a select few hunt on my place either. I once had 4 hunters with 8 dogs kill ever bird in a covey. I sent them packing. We also have folks shoot deer at night. Its the bottom 2% that gives us 98% a bad name.

 

[Crowderfarms]

Well said Bama.Hunters on the overall, are respectful of other people's property.We had fences cut twice last year. Had the "road hunter" problem this year. They gut shot a 12 pointer in one of my pastures,and brought in 4-wheelers to recover him. Never asked permission, I was at work and not much I could do.By the time my wife got a call about it, they were gone. We've had em' shoot from the road towards our house, game warden arrested that one, after I had to play Barney Fife, and apprehend him myself. He was a Convicted Felon, shooting a .300 Win Mag. Missed the deer.

 

[Farmhand]

We don't allow hunting on our land anymore either. Had our pasture tore up way beyond necessary by a pickup one year. Then had our dogs shot and killed 2 years in a row. Three strikes and they are out for good.

 

[Crowderfarms]

I think the only thing that would bend my rules, would be if a straight up man came up to me and wanted to teach our "Heritage" of hunting to his Son or Daughter,then I'd have to get a Philadelphia Lawyer so to speak to draw up a disclaimer.Sad how you have to be today.But for all we have worked for, someone can do years of damage in a millisecond.Too bad about your dogs, Farmhand.

 

[buckaroo_bif]

I'd go for that too Crowder, no problem whatsoever. Dad taught me to hunt I was just lucky enough to be born in the country and we hunted our own land.
Praise God I wasn't a city boy!

 

[Crowderfarms]

Amen! I'm glad my Kids are growing up in the Country.They've learned more about real life than any City Dweller can ever learn.Respect for this land, respect for animals, how to hunt and fish how to be a little self sufficient, I could go on forever. We're a lucky few left in this Country living on Farms and Ranches. We need to stop and think how lucky we all really are. :lol:

 

[Ryder]

I'd go for that too Crowder, no problem whatsoever. Dad taught me to hunt I was just lucky enough to be born in the country and we hunted our own land.
Praise God I wasn't a city boy!

Amen!

 

[Crowderfarms]

A Country Boy Will Survive. (Thanks Mr. Hank!)

 

[franseen]

I am sure most hunters are ignorant and don't care whatsoever about land or landowners. The same way all farmers and ranchers stink like manure when they come to town. They also drive their farm trucks and vehicles to slow, get manure and mud on the roads. You know there cattle also get out a lot and cut up yards, wreck flowers, and cause accidents. Yep all farmers and ranchers are like this. Just become someone shoots your dog. It doesn't mean they are a hunter. Stereotyping seems like a poor idea. If every group of people had more bad ones than good respectful ones in it we would have a sad world. If you can't see how helping hunters could save us a whole lot of trouble in the future. Then well good luck. Ignorance is bliss.

 

[preston39]

Truer comments about hunting/hunters haven't been spoken...other than Franseens'..got to think about yours..."helping hunters ..save us a whole lot of trouble in the future"...I need help with that one????(are you referring to yotes/cougars/and the like? if so no one ever asks to hunt them).

One of the popular and bigger problems... we are confronted with is that an individual or group will buy a spot of land ---10-20 acres... strategically located...invite several to hunt...and then come into surrounding private land from the blind areas.
If caught..they plead ..."no comprande" of property lines...difficult to prosecute...single offence...property lines must be marked ..."No Hunting"....all around ..visibly....to be effective.
When declining request(s) for hunting...i guess we must be courteous with tact and diplomacy...less we create an attitude that can impact us.

Two years ago a neighbor confronted three hunters on the back of his property and dispatched them...rather agressively, i understand. They left. The next day he found two cows with belly shots. Not a nice thing to happen. :
Some may have seen this...one fellow out west put signs around his property which read; ..."Make sure you can cross this field in 9 seconds..the BULL can do it in 10". :lol:
The best approach we have found is to beg...borrow and...(well not steal)...pick up trucks and park them around the outside property areas for the first few days of hunting season...strongly suggesting...all space taken..it seems to work.
Prior to that we have had fences cut; trash all around and one idiot(bless him) built a fire under a lean to shed of a large barn...and obviously went off and left the fire burning...each stick burnt to the end and went out. We were blessed.....one could say....the barn was full of hay.

I would like to think that most hunters are respectful of rights and other's
property. But, the bad ones are difficult to discern.
There are groups of ranchers forming which agree NOT to allow hunting in a given area. This seems to reduce the confrontations. Which IMHO are going to intensify,unfortunately.

 

[aplusmnt]

Guess one nice thing in KS is if you paint your Corner post with K-State Purple you do not have to post signs and they can not claim ignorance. If a the game warden sees a person hunting on a property with purple paint. He will ask them for a signed note from property owner with permission to hunt there. If he has none he will be arrested.
Even if I gave the person permision or they are a distant relative they have got to have a letter of permission on their person. Game warden will not come ask you if it was ok for them to hunt he just handcuffs them and off they go. Dont really like having purple paint everywhere but hunters take it more serious entering were they should not be. Also helps with signs being torn down or shot and then them claiming there was no sign.

 

[Jake]

Guess one nice thing in KS is if you paint your Corner post with K-State Purple you do not have to post signs and they can not claim ignorance. If a the game warden sees a person hunting on a property with purple paint. He will ask them for a signed note from property owner with permission to hunt there. If he has none he will be arrested.
Even if I gave the person permision or they are a distant relative they have got to have a letter of permission on their person. Game warden will not come ask you if it was ok for them to hunt he just handcuffs them and off they go. Dont really like having purple paint everywhere but hunters take it more serious entering were they should not be. Also helps with signs being torn down or shot and then them claiming there was no sign.

I always figures some dang KU fan came up with the purple thing... I still think red or blue would be more visible.....

 

[Crowderfarms]

I am sure most hunters are ignorant and don't care whatsoever about land or landowners. The same way all farmers and ranchers stink like manure when they come to town. They also drive their farm trucks and vehicles to slow, get manure and mud on the roads. You know there cattle also get out a lot and cut up yards, wreck flowers, and cause accidents. Yep all farmers and ranchers are like this. Just become someone shoots your dog. It doesn't mean they are a hunter. Stereotyping seems like a poor idea. If every group of people had more bad ones than good respectful ones in it we would have a sad world. If you can't see how helping hunters could save us a whole lot of trouble in the future. Then well good luck. Ignorance is bliss.

NOBODY Was stereotyping here. Basically, this thread turned to the bad experiences us landowners have had with the public using our land for hunting. Most Farmer's and Rancher's can control predators and game animals themselves.We don't need any "City Folk" that cant decipher a Whitetail from a Simmental,when fences are cut, cattle get out,etc. you can no longer take the risks.Again I will state: I am very Pro-Hunting, just not on my land, by the public.Hunt on Public Lands, or save your $ and hunt out of state if you have to.And by the way, I kind of like cow crap on the road, gives it character, and God Bless the old farmer on his way to town, driving a little slow.Gives us something to talk about.