Angus with Jersey influence

[IluvABbeef]

Some regal idiot's been telling me that there's Jersey influence into Angus cattle.

PLEASE tell me that's a pot load of bull crap!! :bang:

 

[Taurus]

Well I have seen lot of Angus x Jersey crosses lately.

 

[Jake]

Some regal idiot's been telling me that there's Jersey influence into Angus cattle.

PLEASE tell me that's a pot load of bull crap!! :bang:

There is little value to breeding a jersey into the angus gene pool for what the claims have always been about. Hard to add frame size with a jersey. I wouldn't put much faith in your regal idiots "facts".

I believe it was Iowa State University that did do a study on what they called Ajax cows (angus x jersey) Bred them to charolais bulls and had what was supposedly a nice experiment herd.

 

[IluvABbeef]

Well, the reason I ask is because he claims that the Jersey was responsible for adding "milk, calving ease, marbling, and curly calf syndrome" and also said to ask any "leading angus producer" about this to confirm his "fact."

And he called me an idiot because I didn't believe him. :roll:

 

[HOSS]

I personally wouldn't put too much stock in it. Now the last few eating steers that I have raised for my own freezer have been Gelbvieh x Jersey steers. Now that is some fine eatin. Excellent marbeling, decent muscling and they finish really well. Got one on pasture now for next year :cboy:

 

[ALACOWMAN]

Well, the reason I ask is because he claims that the Jersey was responsible for adding "milk, calving ease, marbling, and curly calf syndrome" and also said to ask any "leading angus producer" about this to confirm his "fact."

And he called me an idiot because I didn't believe him. :roll:

now see this is were things would fall apart for me in the conversation,,, i would have to address this issue with him long before we resumed to the original topic :cowboy:

 

[cmf1]

Anytime it comes up around me it is Holstein in the mix.

 

[Jake]

Anytime it comes up around me it is Holstein in the mix.

or even brown swiss and simmental or maine. There are about as many theories and stories out there as there are breeds to cross with. Truth of the matter is there have been unethical breeders in the past and there will be in the future they exist in every breed out there just hope that if 100% genetic purity is high on your priority list there are few breeds out there that will fit your fancy.

 

[cmf1]

Anytime it comes up around me it is Holstein in the mix.

or even brown swiss and simmental or maine. There are about as many theories and stories out there as there are breeds to cross with. Truth of the matter is there have been unethical breeders in the past and there will be in the future they exist in every breed out there just hope that if 100% genetic purity is high on your priority list there are few breeds out there that will fit your fancy.

Stated much better than my feeble attempt Jake.
A little something in the woodpile most any way you turn.
I think a lot of breeds have suffered a bit of impurity at the hands of mad rancher scientists "improving" the breed a little faster than well thought out selctive breeding could.

 

[regolith]

It's a good cross, but while it appears to be accepted fact that Holstein is in Angus I've never heard that said of Jersey...
and the horned/hornless black and white calves I've seen from Angus bulls probably all trace back to a Holstein within the last two or three generations of *that* particular Angus bull, not to the pure Angus genetics.

 

[Massey135]

Anytime it comes up around me it is Holstein in the mix.

or even brown swiss and simmental or maine. There are about as many theories and stories out there as there are breeds to cross with. Truth of the matter is there have been unethical breeders in the past and there will be in the future they exist in every breed out there just hope that if 100% genetic purity is high on your priority list there are few breeds out there that will fit your fancy.

Well said, Jake.

On a side note, some other breed is responsible for the mature size of some Angus cows literally doubling in size over the last 50 years. Angus cows were 800 to a thousand lbs for the first 80 years of their registry now suddenly there are 16-17-1800lb so called Angus. I don't believe all the selection pressure in the world could acct for that spread in a 50yr time period.

 

[sizmic]

My :2cents: . The white in angus came from shorthorns, the height and weight from chi's. There was a holestien bull who reportedly would throw a solid black calf every time.

Sizmic

edit; A 1/4 jersey x 3/4 angus is an excellent eating experience. Just had some a few minutes ago!

 

[IluvABbeef]

Now what about the fact about Curly Calf?? (That's what started it all btw) I said it was more due to line-breeding and such, not due to the influence of Jersey (or any other breed), and stemmed from the one sire Precision 1680 which had traits opposite to that typical of Jerseys.

 

[sizmic]

From what I understand:
Hydrocephylous (NH) is a genetic variable that started with, literally, 1680. It has been well documented that it started with him and is nothing more than deletion of a certain gene. No outside influence is in question. Arthogryposis multiplex (curly calf) started somewhere around the 9j9 line, and is a deletion as well. Not quite as much is known about the ancestry there. They are pretty sure it started with 9j9 or his mother. Fawn calf started with Freestate Barbara and is well documented as well.

I believe that to be accurate but maybe someone in the "know" could chime in.

Sizmic

 

[djinwa]

On a side note, some other breed is responsible for the mature size of some Angus cows literally doubling in size over the last 50 years. Angus cows were 800 to a thousand lbs for the first 80 years of their registry now suddenly there are 16-17-1800lb so called Angus. I don't believe all the selection pressure in the world could acct for that spread in a 50yr time period.

Actually, 50 years is a long time. Dozens of generations in which you can select the biggest. I'm thinking you could double size in ten or twenty years.

As for the Jersey, perhaps that influence was needed to achieve the funnel butt found in many angus?

 

[Massey135]

On a side note, some other breed is responsible for the mature size of some Angus cows literally doubling in size over the last 50 years. Angus cows were 800 to a thousand lbs for the first 80 years of their registry now suddenly there are 16-17-1800lb so called Angus. I don't believe all the selection pressure in the world could acct for that spread in a 50yr time period.

Actually, 50 years is a long time. Dozens of generations in which you can select the biggest. I'm thinking you could double size in ten or twenty years.

what breeder was noted for doing this? Biglgesgt jump was between '70 and '80. Look at NWSS grand champ Angus. These frame 10 Angus jus suddenly appeared??

Anyone in this field that might shine some light on what it would take to double a breeds size LEGITIMATELY would be great appreciated. I personally don't think its possible. Even the most extreme outliers have genetic limitations.

 

[KNERSIE]

On a side note, some other breed is responsible for the mature size of some Angus cows literally doubling in size over the last 50 years. Angus cows were 800 to a thousand lbs for the first 80 years of their registry now suddenly there are 16-17-1800lb so called Angus. I don't believe all the selection pressure in the world could acct for that spread in a 50yr time period.

Actually, 50 years is a long time. Dozens of generations in which you can select the biggest. I'm thinking you could double size in ten or twenty years.

As for the Jersey, perhaps that influence was needed to achieve the funnel butt found in many angus?

I'm with Massey 135 on this, the frame jump in all the British breeds in the USA was just to quick to be from selective breeding alone. There is a website showing how cattle changed through the years and the changes made from say 1967 to 1975 was mind boggling.

 

[KNERSIE]

My :2cents: . The white in angus came from shorthorns, the height and weight from chi's. There was a holestien bull who reportedly would throw a solid black calf every time.

Sizmic

edit; A 1/4 jersey x 3/4 angus is an excellent eating experience. Just had some a few minutes ago!

I have also heard the chianina "infusion" was very strong, especially in the UK, because although white, they have black pigmented skin.

1/4 jerseyX 3/4 angus would not only make an excellent eating experience, it will also make a very profitable commercial cow when bred to the right bull.

 

[Stocker Steve]

1/4 jerseyX 3/4 angus would not only make an excellent eating experience, it will also make a very profitable commercial cow when bred to the right bull.

So I need a 1/2 jersey bull to make profitable replacements?

 

[KNERSIE]

Not at all, but typically you can buy them very cheap, they make great cows, but you need a deep, soggy well muscled beef bull to bring the best out of them.