Has anyone experienced first calf Angus heifers tyring to kill their calves? We have now had two in the last three years. One was an EXT granddaughter and one an E161 granddaughter. Both have or will be at a McDonalds near you. They have ended up liking the calves eventually, but I got into Angus to have problem free cattle, but have found the opposite. I would appreciate any knowledge about if it is from certain pedigrees, herds, etc. This is just something that should never happen.
Angus Mothering Ability?
- Thread starter BA
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randiliana
Well-known member
BA":1pqjtg35 said:
We have seen the same thing. Had a first calf heifer that loved her calf as long as it layed still. As soon as it moved she wanted to kill it. We separated them overnight and tried again, but she still wanted to kill it. Had another cow that we bought this winter do pretty much the same thing, but not quite as agressive. But she had every cow in the herd worked up. Every time her calf moved she went nuts. The heifer is gone, and the cow will be. I imagine that it is genetic to some extent, and so far the only cows that have been like this for us have been Black Angus.
On the other hand, I have seen cows do the same thing when their calf is not breathing (but only then). Some of them just seem to know that they need to do something to save their calf.
I don't think there is anything that can tick me off as quick as this. I wonder if this all starts with people keeping the great bull out of a poor mother like this? I won't get passed on in my herd, I will guarantee!
purecountry
Well-known member
EXT - there's your problem. Go over to ranchers.net and ask Northern Rancher about them. He has nothing but @#*%(# to say about their attitudes.
When we had all purebred Angus, we had the odd one that would try to kill a calf. But then again, I've seen it in most every breed I've ever dealt with - except Galloways. ;-)
When we had all purebred Angus, we had the odd one that would try to kill a calf. But then again, I've seen it in most every breed I've ever dealt with - except Galloways. ;-)
Victoria
Well-known member
We've never had a cow of any breed try to kill her calf. Guess we've just been lucky. We've had a few over the years (not our purebred Red Angus) that haven't wanted their calves but none have tried to kill them.
My grandfather got several Angus sired heifers like that ~25 years ago. About half were fine but some had to be barned with the calf and a couple were so bad that they had to be locked into the squeeze chute, and their back legs tied to a fence post so the calf could suck. I think he only lost one calf; but that was the end of that bull (and we only raised that one set of daughters). Only one of that set made a looongg career here. I have also had straight Angus, Angus x Brahman, Angus x Herf, Angus x Pinzgauer, and Angus x Gert cows here that were superb mothers (not related to that bull though). Probably the best two commercial cows we ever owned were half Angus. I would not judge the whole breed by a couple of heifers. I have had the same thing happen with a couple of Herf heifers (very, very rare though), a Char-Herf cross, a Senepol, and a mongrel stockyard cow. I think you may have gotten a hold of some lesser genetics. Is there a common link in the pedigree. I don't want to lay this at the feet of EXT (who is very proven); but for some reason the cross did not work out. This is not an exact science. For some reason, some animals sometimes turn out not right. Cull them and move on. I wouldn't condemn a breed consisting of hundreds of thousands of cows over this.
CattleAnnie
Well-known member
I've only had this happen on two occasions - both were second calvers at the time and new to the operation.
First one was a cow that looks to be mostly Simmie. She'd knock that calf flat every time he tried to get up. Finally ended up snagging him and towing him out of the pen to safety. Gave her a couple of hours to settle down (she was kind of a flighty hag back then), and reintroduced the calf. She loved him right up and down, and never looked back.
She landed her fourth calf for me two weeks ago, and is one of the top cows for bringing home a big soggie calf every fall.
Other one was the next spring with a sweet little black baldie cow - she wasn't quite as rank as the Sim - didn't flatten the calf, but roared around it and bunted it a bit every time she wriggled. Did the same thing as with the Sim, and again, no problems and she's on her third calf for me in about a week or so.
I wonder if occasionally those young cows don't confuse their new calf with a predator; also as both cows have never lost a calf to the wolves yet (knock on wood) so maybe it's just more likely to happen with a very protective animal.
Take care.
First one was a cow that looks to be mostly Simmie. She'd knock that calf flat every time he tried to get up. Finally ended up snagging him and towing him out of the pen to safety. Gave her a couple of hours to settle down (she was kind of a flighty hag back then), and reintroduced the calf. She loved him right up and down, and never looked back.
She landed her fourth calf for me two weeks ago, and is one of the top cows for bringing home a big soggie calf every fall.
Other one was the next spring with a sweet little black baldie cow - she wasn't quite as rank as the Sim - didn't flatten the calf, but roared around it and bunted it a bit every time she wriggled. Did the same thing as with the Sim, and again, no problems and she's on her third calf for me in about a week or so.
I wonder if occasionally those young cows don't confuse their new calf with a predator; also as both cows have never lost a calf to the wolves yet (knock on wood) so maybe it's just more likely to happen with a very protective animal.
Take care.
rkm
Well-known member
Had a limo heifer kill her calf right in front of us. Happened so fast we couldn't stop her. Lucky she didn't kill us. We thought it was because we were there. We gave her another chance, stayed out of sight when calved next time she killed it too. She never got a third chance.
Jeanne - Simme Valley
Well-known member
edited - deleted
Jeanne - Simme Valley
Well-known member
Angus (and many other) moms would be more likely to butt you around than their calves. Although, when we managed a herd a few years back, they had a group of 30 Red Angus cows that came from Montana. Many of them just walked away & left their calf. One, though, did like yours. Everytime the calf wiggled or shook it's head, she wammed it. Threw it right up in the air. We seperated them over night. She was fine next morning. Kept her & next year did the same thing, but this time she was out in the middle of a field & you couldn't get near her or calf. Turned out, as soon as she cleaned (passed placenta) she was a loving mom. Course, calf was so stressed both years, both got really sick. Shipped her butt.
But I do think it's a "protection" instinct - over protection!
But I do think it's a "protection" instinct - over protection!
Kent
Well-known member
Angus are good cattle as a breed, but they are far from problem free, just like any other breed. As you know, you just have to cull out the bad individuals. I've had bad Angus, bad Herefords, bad Beefmasters, bad Gerts, and bad crossed-up mongrels. Never had a problem free herd yet. Hope nobody told you the Angus would be problem free when you bought them. If they did, shame on them.
I had a Hereford heifer that wouldn't let the calf get up for a while. She would knock it back down every time it got up. But she quit after about thirty minutes and everything was fine after that.
I had a Hereford heifer that wouldn't let the calf get up for a while. She would knock it back down every time it got up. But she quit after about thirty minutes and everything was fine after that.
Jeanne - Simme Valley
Well-known member
No breed is problem free. We like to think that "our" breed has the least problems - otherwise you wouldn't be breeding them.
Kent
Well-known member
Jeanne - Simme Valley":3rvby5g8 said:
True, and then there are also people who picked a breed because they liked its looks or because their grandfather raised them without researching the common problems of the breed. Nothing wrong with that, but now that they are neck deep, they won't admit their breed has any faults at all.
I have no problem admitting the faults in my cattle. What I don't like is when someone else hears of my problems, then blames the whole breed for them and talks them down to others, all the while saying, "MY cattle never have problems." Yeah, right. :roll:
I'm personally not condeming the breed, I'm just trying to determine which bloodlines to avoid. Two heifers out of eight purchased from one herd is too many. I would never sell breeding stock from a cow like that, just hoping everyone else is the same, if not there could be some real good bulls carrying around this problem. Not giving up on Angus at all, but sure as heck doing some things differently. Always heard that EXT had disposition problems. My heifer was good dispositioned til she calved, I guess I figured that one out. Live and Learn, Die and forget it all!
purecountry":67xgyg1v said:
EXT always gets the rap.lol My EXT's are zero problems. When they calve, I get on my 4-wheeler drive down to where they are, set my scales on the ground, pick up the calf and weigh the critter, and then return him to his mother,who is standing and watching about 2 feet away. I would love to have more EXT's-great udders,wean heavy calves for their moderate size, but the semen has just gotten too expensive at $100 a straw the last time I checked.
We've never had an Angus heifer try to kill her calf. We have laughed at some as they act like they're scared to death of that wet pile of calf. They stand as far away as they can and still reach and lick it down, "talking" to it all the time. The dam of the first AI calf born here walked away from the calf. We shut them up and she took it without any more trouble, but was a poor mom. We thought she'd do better with the second; she didn't. So she went to the sale barn. She was not an EXT daughter.
EXTs get a lot of flack for disposition and I don't doubt there are some bad tempered ones out there. We've never had any problem with ours being mean and, for sure, none of them are bad moms.
EXTs get a lot of flack for disposition and I don't doubt there are some bad tempered ones out there. We've never had any problem with ours being mean and, for sure, none of them are bad moms.
