Angus - Most influencial Families

[MikeC]

I think DOC stands up for the Angus breed just as much as any other. The difference is he is not afraid to announce its short comings.

IMO, DOC is just another Angus basher. Does he take the time to announce the shortcomings of Murray Greys, Herefords, Limousin? No. It's just Angus that he seems to get great pleasure bashing. I think he's a former show ring "guru" that can't get over the fact there are better was to judge cattle these days.

And, generally, that doesn't bother me. Angus is the dominant breed, I'd expect them to get the most bashing. But sometimes I just can't resist popping his hot air balloon.

Midol can't be all that expensive is it? :shock:

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[Frankie]

Good grief, DOC. You go on a rant about how wonderful 878 is, then you say you don't like New Design genetics? :roll:

To hear you tell it the Angus breed is falling apart. But they're not. The Association registered 347,755 cattle last year, over 200,000 cattle were transferred to new owners, over 3,000 new members joined the association, half the calves registered were AI, almost 900,000 birth, weaning and yearling weights were added to the Angus database, sales of CAB continue to grow. In spite of your doom and gloom beliefs, the American Angus Association and the Angus breed are doing quite well.

Success isn't measured by registrations at least if you aren't counting the fiscal benefit for the AAA.


Success isn't measured by numbers and dollars.


Associations work for us and need to deliver value. Not depict what they think we need!

I asked this question earlier to another poster and got no response, so I'll post it to you.

Tell me how you measure success for a breed if not the things I've mentioned: registrations, membership in the association, transfers, participatin in herd improvement programs.

What other criteria do you use to say a breed is "successful"?

 

[Frankie]

I think DOC stands up for the Angus breed just as much as any other. The difference is he is not afraid to announce its short comings.

IMO, DOC is just another Angus basher. Does he take the time to announce the shortcomings of Murray Greys, Herefords, Limousin? No. It's just Angus that he seems to get great pleasure bashing. I think he's a former show ring "guru" that can't get over the fact there are better was to judge cattle these days.

And, generally, that doesn't bother me. Angus is the dominant breed, I'd expect them to get the most bashing. But sometimes I just can't resist popping his hot air balloon.

Midol can't be all that expensive is it? :shock:

Do you feel like a big man now?

 

[Scotty]

I think DOC stands up for the Angus breed just as much as any other. The difference is he is not afraid to announce its short comings.

IMO, DOC is just another Angus basher. Does he take the time to announce the shortcomings of Murray Greys, Herefords, Limousin? No. It's just Angus that he seems to get great pleasure bashing. I think he's a former show ring "guru" that can't get over the fact there are better was to judge cattle these days.

And, generally, that doesn't bother me. Angus is the dominant breed, I'd expect them to get the most bashing. But sometimes I just can't resist popping his hot air balloon.

Midol can't be all that expensive is it? :shock:

This is sure to get locked now. My vote for most influential family is Dixie Erica. Probly not as well known but great cows. Since this was the original question.

 

[LFF]

I'm still waiting for Frankie's reply about posting the actual data that SHE SHOULD HAVE. Come on Frankie where is the proof that your Angus are superior?

 

[SEC]

Good grief, DOC. You go on a rant about how wonderful 878 is, then you say you don't like New Design genetics? :roll:

To hear you tell it the Angus breed is falling apart. But they're not. The Association registered 347,755 cattle last year, over 200,000 cattle were transferred to new owners, over 3,000 new members joined the association, half the calves registered were AI, almost 900,000 birth, weaning and yearling weights were added to the Angus database, sales of CAB continue to grow. In spite of your doom and gloom beliefs, the American Angus Association and the Angus breed are doing quite well.

Success isn't measured by registrations at least if you aren't counting the fiscal benefit for the AAA.


Success isn't measured by numbers and dollars.


Associations work for us and need to deliver value. Not depict what they think we need!

I asked this question earlier to another poster and got no response, so I'll post it to you.

Tell me how you measure success for a breed if not the things I've mentioned: registrations, membership in the association, transfers, participatin in herd improvement programs.

What other criteria do you use to say a breed is "successful"?

That is a good question, I am trying to think of the proper way to parlay it. We are in the same scenario up here and our association boasts the great numbers, revenue, transfers etc. What they aren't saying is that there is a less than stellar field staff. Not to pick on our Field Man as he's a pretty good guy, but there is no way in hell that he can be everywhere and be efficient because he has a big area to cover. Actually he is a commercial liason, but for purebred breeders there is no support staff to spend time and help out new breeders that don't know the ropes. Some figure it out others fall by the wayside. Our office staff gets cranky because of breeders who don't even know the proper way of filling out forms etc. Our office staff is overworked and due to not being competitive losing some excellent workers on wage. We have a CEO that wouldn't know which end of a cow you would go to if you were to AI the cow. He may have been effective in the Political world but not in the Angus business. We need grass roots people helping those breeders out that would welcome some expertise.

Business anywhere is about service and frankly, if the AAA is like the CAA the service is far less than is should be. The support staff in the office can be okay some are complete retards with no personality skills. Many people have their head up their ass with EPD's and continual ways of explaining their benefit to them. It's just a rich man's way of being able to understand the numbers and not know the cattle. Use EPD's that's great but understand that they aren't the end all to things. The CAA has now implemented the rule that come Jan 1st/08 all ET calves will need to be DNA tested to ensure purity? What a joke, if that's the case every AI calf should be DNA tested and at that point why not make every calf be DNA'd if they are going to be retained and have calves registered off of them. The bulls need that so why not the females.

My heart is about to explode so I am going for a smoke and will answer this question further later.

 

[SEC]

I think DOC stands up for the Angus breed just as much as any other. The difference is he is not afraid to announce its short comings.

IMO, DOC is just another Angus basher. Does he take the time to announce the shortcomings of Murray Greys, Herefords, Limousin? No. It's just Angus that he seems to get great pleasure bashing. I think he's a former show ring "guru" that can't get over the fact there are better was to judge cattle these days.

And, generally, that doesn't bother me. Angus is the dominant breed, I'd expect them to get the most bashing. But sometimes I just can't resist popping his hot air balloon.

Midol can't be all that expensive is it? :shock:

Do you feel like a big man now?

No not at all, but you girls get so cranky sometimes. Big breath. Anyways, Frankie, take a poll and find out exactly how many people find Doc offensive. Doc speaks his mind and that's great for two reasons. Experience and Education. Not that you need to go to school to be smart but Doc isn't raving on about stuff that doesn't matter. We maybe don't like everyone's answers but just like a__holes we all have one.

 

[Frankie]

I think DOC stands up for the Angus breed just as much as any other. The difference is he is not afraid to announce its short comings.

IMO, DOC is just another Angus basher. Does he take the time to announce the shortcomings of Murray Greys, Herefords, Limousin? No. It's just Angus that he seems to get great pleasure bashing. I think he's a former show ring "guru" that can't get over the fact there are better was to judge cattle these days.

And, generally, that doesn't bother me. Angus is the dominant breed, I'd expect them to get the most bashing. But sometimes I just can't resist popping his hot air balloon.

Midol can't be all that expensive is it? :shock:

Do you feel like a big man now?

No not at all, but you girls get so cranky sometimes. Big breath. Anyways, Frankie, take a poll and find out exactly how many people find Doc offensive. Doc speaks his mind and that's great for two reasons. Experience and Education. Not that you need to go to school to be smart but Doc isn't raving on about stuff that doesn't matter. We maybe don't like everyone's answers but just like a__holes we all have one.

"No, not at all..."? Surely you feel manly and proud to have said something like that to me on an internet discussion board. Your mom, wife, daughter will all be proud of you I'm sure.

Do you think I care that DOC might be the favorite of some people on here? I've never seen DOC say a rude or negative thing about Herefords, etc., but he's quick to bash Angus. And I don't mind pointing it out. He certainly has the right to do it, but I have the right to correct his comments if I think they're inaccurate. If he can't live with that, it's his problem....and apparently you've made it yours, too.

Doc's experience and education? I'll admit that I don't read anywhere all his posts since I'm pretty sure what they'll say. So I may have missed all his experience in the commercial cattle business. Please take time and educate me on his experience in that field.

 

[Frankie]

Good grief, DOC. You go on a rant about how wonderful 878 is, then you say you don't like New Design genetics? :roll:

To hear you tell it the Angus breed is falling apart. But they're not. The Association registered 347,755 cattle last year, over 200,000 cattle were transferred to new owners, over 3,000 new members joined the association, half the calves registered were AI, almost 900,000 birth, weaning and yearling weights were added to the Angus database, sales of CAB continue to grow. In spite of your doom and gloom beliefs, the American Angus Association and the Angus breed are doing quite well.

Success isn't measured by registrations at least if you aren't counting the fiscal benefit for the AAA.


Success isn't measured by numbers and dollars.


Associations work for us and need to deliver value. Not depict what they think we need!

I asked this question earlier to another poster and got no response, so I'll post it to you.

Tell me how you measure success for a breed if not the things I've mentioned: registrations, membership in the association, transfers, participatin in herd improvement programs.

What other criteria do you use to say a breed is "successful"?

That is a good question, I am trying to think of the proper way to parlay it. We are in the same scenario up here and our association boasts the great numbers, revenue, transfers etc. What they aren't saying is that there is a less than stellar field staff. Not to pick on our Field Man as he's a pretty good guy, but there is no way in be nice that he can be everywhere and be efficient because he has a big area to cover. Actually he is a commercial liason, but for purebred breeders there is no support staff to spend time and help out new breeders that don't know the ropes. Some figure it out others fall by the wayside. Our office staff gets cranky because of breeders who don't even know the proper way of filling out forms etc. Our office staff is overworked and due to not being competitive losing some excellent workers on wage. We have a CEO that wouldn't know which end of a cow you would go to if you were to AI the cow. He may have been effective in the Political world but not in the Angus business. We need grass roots people helping those breeders out that would welcome some expertise.

Business anywhere is about service and frankly, if the AAA is like the CAA the service is far less than is should be. The support staff in the office can be okay some are complete retards with no personality skills. Many people have their head up their ass with EPD's and continual ways of explaining their benefit to them. It's just a rich man's way of being able to understand the numbers and not know the cattle. Use EPD's that's great but understand that they aren't the end all to things. The CAA has now implemented the rule that come Jan 1st/08 all ET calves will need to be DNA tested to ensure purity? What a joke, if that's the case every AI calf should be DNA tested and at that point why not make every calf be DNA'd if they are going to be retained and have calves registered off of them. The bulls need that so why not the females.

My heart is about to explode so I am going for a smoke and will answer this question further later.

I'd give you my sympathy for the problems you're having with your breed association. From what I read online about others, the American Angus Association is probably the most efficient association in the US. These days we do most of our registerations and report AHIR data online so we don't have a lot of contact with the office staff. But in the past they've always been very pleasant, helpful and knowledgable when I've called them.

Our regional manager is pleasant, friendly, and seems happy to take time to visit at sales we attend. He's especially happy to whip out pictures of his kids (twins).

The Board of Directors is made up of people with the success of the breed foremost in their minds. I'm happy to give the Association credit for much of the success of the Angus breed.

I'll be interested to see how you decide to measure "success" of a breed if not the points that I made.

 

[SEC]

I think DOC stands up for the Angus breed just as much as any other. The difference is he is not afraid to announce its short comings.

IMO, DOC is just another Angus basher. Does he take the time to announce the shortcomings of Murray Greys, Herefords, Limousin? No. It's just Angus that he seems to get great pleasure bashing. I think he's a former show ring "guru" that can't get over the fact there are better was to judge cattle these days.

And, generally, that doesn't bother me. Angus is the dominant breed, I'd expect them to get the most bashing. But sometimes I just can't resist popping his hot air balloon.

Midol can't be all that expensive is it? :shock:

Do you feel like a big man now?

No not at all, but you girls get so cranky sometimes. Big breath. Anyways, Frankie, take a poll and find out exactly how many people find Doc offensive. Doc speaks his mind and that's great for two reasons. Experience and Education. Not that you need to go to school to be smart but Doc isn't raving on about stuff that doesn't matter. We maybe don't like everyone's answers but just like a__holes we all have one.

"No, not at all..."? Surely you feel manly and proud to have said something like that to me on an internet discussion board. Your mom, wife, daughter will all be proud of you I'm sure.

Do you think I care that DOC might be the favorite of some people on here? I've never seen DOC say a rude or negative thing about Herefords, etc., but he's quick to bash Angus. And I don't mind pointing it out. He certainly has the right to do it, but I have the right to correct his comments if I think they're inaccurate. If he can't live with that, it's his problem....and apparently you've made it yours, too.

Doc's experience and education? I'll admit that I don't read anywhere all his posts since I'm pretty sure what they'll say. So I may have missed all his experience in the commercial cattle business. Please take time and educate me on his experience in that field.

Maybe Doc doesn't bash the Herefords for the same reason I don't get into either. It doesn't matter, they aren't the breed I am a part of either. It's not uncommon to be critical of something you feel strongly about. There are days that I come off cranky about the Angus business and it's only because I think it can be better than what it is, and we need not feel idle about the position we are in.

 

[SEC]

Good grief, DOC. You go on a rant about how wonderful 878 is, then you say you don't like New Design genetics? :roll:

To hear you tell it the Angus breed is falling apart. But they're not. The Association registered 347,755 cattle last year, over 200,000 cattle were transferred to new owners, over 3,000 new members joined the association, half the calves registered were AI, almost 900,000 birth, weaning and yearling weights were added to the Angus database, sales of CAB continue to grow. In spite of your doom and gloom beliefs, the American Angus Association and the Angus breed are doing quite well.

Success isn't measured by registrations at least if you aren't counting the fiscal benefit for the AAA.


Success isn't measured by numbers and dollars.


Associations work for us and need to deliver value. Not depict what they think we need!

I asked this question earlier to another poster and got no response, so I'll post it to you.

Tell me how you measure success for a breed if not the things I've mentioned: registrations, membership in the association, transfers, participatin in herd improvement programs.

What other criteria do you use to say a breed is "successful"?

That is a good question, I am trying to think of the proper way to parlay it. We are in the same scenario up here and our association boasts the great numbers, revenue, transfers etc. What they aren't saying is that there is a less than stellar field staff. Not to pick on our Field Man as he's a pretty good guy, but there is no way in be nice that he can be everywhere and be efficient because he has a big area to cover. Actually he is a commercial liason, but for purebred breeders there is no support staff to spend time and help out new breeders that don't know the ropes. Some figure it out others fall by the wayside. Our office staff gets cranky because of breeders who don't even know the proper way of filling out forms etc. Our office staff is overworked and due to not being competitive losing some excellent workers on wage. We have a CEO that wouldn't know which end of a cow you would go to if you were to AI the cow. He may have been effective in the Political world but not in the Angus business. We need grass roots people helping those breeders out that would welcome some expertise.

Business anywhere is about service and frankly, if the AAA is like the CAA the service is far less than is should be. The support staff in the office can be okay some are complete retards with no personality skills. Many people have their head up their ass with EPD's and continual ways of explaining their benefit to them. It's just a rich man's way of being able to understand the numbers and not know the cattle. Use EPD's that's great but understand that they aren't the end all to things. The CAA has now implemented the rule that come Jan 1st/08 all ET calves will need to be DNA tested to ensure purity? What a joke, if that's the case every AI calf should be DNA tested and at that point why not make every calf be DNA'd if they are going to be retained and have calves registered off of them. The bulls need that so why not the females.

My heart is about to explode so I am going for a smoke and will answer this question further later.

I'd give you my sympathy for the problems you're having with your breed association. From what I read online about others, the American Angus Association is probably the most efficient association in the US. These days we do most of our registerations and report AHIR data online so we don't have a lot of contact with the office staff. But in the past they've always been very pleasant, helpful and knowledgable when I've called them.

Our regional manager is pleasant, friendly, and seems happy to take time to visit at sales we attend. He's especially happy to whip out pictures of his kids (twins).

The Board of Directors is made up of people with the success of the breed foremost in their minds. I'm happy to give the Association credit for much of the success of the Angus breed.

I'll be interested to see how you decide to measure "success" of a breed if not the points that I made.

We'll have to start a new post I guess as this will be talked about forever.


I agree that the Dixie Erica cow family might be as good as they come.

 

[DOC HARRIS]

Inasmuch as it is after midnight here, I will present my FINAL comment on this subject tomorrow. I just don't want anyone to think that I am ignoring answering Frankie's prejudiced points of discussion in her post. Some of those points are so tangential they don't warrant a comment.

I will try to answer tomorrow before our family get-together on Christmas Eve.

I wish all of you a VERY Merry Christrmas.

DOC HARRIS

 

[novatech]

I'll be interested to see how you decide to measure "success" of a breed if not the points that I made.
So your measure of success is based on purely marketing skills?

 

[Frankie]

I'll be interested to see how you decide to measure "success" of a breed if not the points that I made.
So your measure of success is based on purely marketing skills?

I said

...The Association registered 347,755 cattle last year, over 200,000 cattle were transferred to new owners, over 3,000 new members joined the association, half the calves registered were AI, almost 900,000 birth, weaning and yearling weights were added to the Angus database, sales of CAB continue to grow.

If you want to call that "purely marketing", go ahead.

Let's see your definition of breed success.

 

[novatech]

I'll be interested to see how you decide to measure "success" of a breed if not the points that I made.
So your measure of success is based on purely marketing skills?

I said

...The Association registered 347,755 cattle last year, over 200,000 cattle were transferred to new owners, over 3,000 new members joined the association, half the calves registered were AI, almost 900,000 birth, weaning and yearling weights were added to the Angus database, sales of CAB continue to grow.

If you want to call that "purely marketing", go ahead.

Let's see your definition of breed success.

Simply breed improvement.
If all angus breeders sought out improving the quality of the beef they produce there would be no need to out source to produce the quantity they need.
You constantly quote high numbers of the animals in the association. Then why is it with so many cattle in the assoc. they feel the need to include other breeds to get the high choice grade they select from? Just how many good Angus cattle would it take to fill the demand? You have only shown good marketing, Very little success with quality improvement overall.

A very sincere Merry Christmas to you and every one else on these boards.

 

[DOC HARRIS]

I am feeling somewhat like the 400# Gorilla in the kitchen - being discussed as if I weren't present. What Frankie, or anyone else for that matter, may think of MY OPINIONS is really of little consequence to me - with one stipulation or exception: anyone who regularly reads the posts that I write here should know, without a doubt, that I am NOT "bashing" the Angus Breed per se. This is YOUR discernment and discrimination, Frankie. In fact, I am "bashing", if you will, FUNNEL BUTT BEEF CATTLE, of whatever breed!

In order for there to be NO misunderstanding as to MY interpretation or meaning of the term Funnel Butt, ( and inasmuch as that is my own personal CHOICE of words which I have used in discussion and writing for over 50 years), I feel compelled to define it so there will be no question as to it's meaning. It is a way of describing a bovine animal which lacks hindquarter muscling, and which makes the side view of said animal appear as if its hind legs have been jammed down into a very large funnel, with the hooves protruding from the small end.

There are OTHER cattle which display the appearance of FUNNEL BUTTS, - beef cattle of non-descript breeding - most strictly Dairy Breeds, but that is THEIR genetic trait and characteristic peculiar to that breed, and it should be so. But Beef Cattle with optimal and desirable BEEF Phenotype characteristics displaying long, mostly level, deep thick and wide hindquarters and rounds when viewed from the top, side and rear, have been determined by Beef Cattle breeders, packers, butchers and consumers to be the desirable type for beef purposes.

The "Continental" Beef Breeds, such as Charolais, Limousin, Gelpvieh, Simmental and several others, genetically are strong in propagating full, deep, thick, and wide hindquarters. The British Beef Breeds, - Hereford, Shorthorn, Angus and others also have certain strains and/or famlies which also show the Beef phenotype of well-muscled hindquarters. HOWEVER, and here we lurch back into the original subject which seemed to stimulate some discordant communication this Christmas Season, there are SOME lines of Angus Cattle which have concentrated certain of their Genetic traits and characteristics in their breeding and mating practices - such as very low birth weight, loss of scrotal circumference, minimized fertility in both sires and dams, and IN MY PERSONAL OPINION, too HIGH milk production in the on-going and continual "pursuit of perfection". Low birth weight is desirable, to a point. Optimal Milk production is desirable, to a point. If the genetic determinations of these traits are over-concentrated, over time, negative results may transpire, such as calves with TOO low of birth weights, Cows producing TOO much milk, and resulting in loss of muscle in important carcass cuts - Voilla- FUNNEL BUTTS!

Unfortunately, the Angus breed, with their higher number of produced calves each succeeding year than other breeds (according to Frankie's carefully articulated statistics) shows a higher percentage of Funnel Butts than other 'designated and indicated' breeds. It makes absolutely no differerence to me which breed shows Funnel Butts in their progeny - if I see it I will comment on it - if asked.

Watch my lips and typed words, Frankie! I think that the Angus Breed is the Finest BREED of well-known and well-accepted Beef Cattle in the WORLD today! Not only as a "stand alone" breed, but as a crossbreeding tool with almost any other beef breed. I do NOT "Bash" the Angus Breed, their Association, their Regional Managers - or their "kids", their number of registrations, their methods of reporting data, their Headquarters in St. Joseph, MO. which I have visited several times, their office staff, The Angus Board of Directors, or some of their ideas. Some of their ideas suck, but they are no different than any other Organization's Board of Directors, of which I have been a member of several in my life.

The "Success of a Beef Breed" is measured by how successful their bovine representatives are in producing a palatable, tender and tasty protein product for human consumption which is accepted by the Beef-eating public with "Open Mouths", and which is capable of making a profit for the beef producer who incorporates those genetics. If the "Association" plays some part in that formula - FINE. But we are not eating 'ideas'.

The BOTTOM LINE OF SUCCESS is the Beef Carcass hanging on the rail representing PROFIT to the producer!

I would suggest that we put this specious discussion to rest!

DOC HARRIS

 

[Oldtimer]

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: ;-)

 

[sowman]

Actually if you go back just a little farther in a lot of pedigrees you wil see the influence of two bulls. #7530738 and 3175139.