Angus Bull: WAR Alliance 9126

[Chuckie]

I have been looking at this bull in the Angus Journal for a while. He shows a 1.4 BW, 68 WW, 114 YW and 32 milk. His accuracies are going up are in the 70's. Has anyone bred their cows to this bull or do you know of anyone who has. If you know of any babies, please tell me how they are turning out.

 

[jscunn]

Chuckie,
Remember EPDs are just a tool for selection. I would be apprehensive about using him for a couple of reasons.

1. Have not seen his calves.
2. The bottom of his pedigree is unknown (to me).
3. EPDs that good cause a red flag to go up. (how come no one else is using him)
4. Success is achieved using "balanced trait selection" and generations of selection.

This is easily solved by finding some of his calves somewhere to look at and having other AI sired calves there to compare him to.

You may hit a homerun with him but you may be better off with your Boomtime son. (By the way I really liked Boom Time's Dam, except she might have had alittle attitude)

I am a firm believer in the maternal side of the pedigree is extremely important to a bull success. His daughters should look something like his dam.

 

[certherfbeef]

This is easily solved by finding some of his calves somewhere to look at and having other AI sired calves there to compare him to.

This is an excellent idea. But stop at more than one place.

 

[Larry Sansom]

Fancy EPD's but did you miss that negative $EN??? If you use him - better sell Every calf - the heifers will break you with that $EN. Being in TN - like most KY breeders - you are probably more cow calf than cattle finisher - so do not forget that extra growth does not come free - it takes energy in form of extra feed and probably reduced breeding efficiency in a non-pampered world.

 

[jscunn]

Excellent point, however I dont believe the numbers. I had a cow who was the hardest doing cow ever on the place and she currently has a +15 EN. Her daughter who is a real easy keeper (420) has an EN of +9.
To each his own, but I personally think that most low input cattle are low production cattle as well. Good milkers usually dont keep well and vice versa.
Another problem with the low input "craze" is people will take "high input" cattle and just quit supplementing them.

 

[Chuckie]

I like to hear the pros and cons of bulls. Ya'll throw a lot of info at me and I can learn more. JSCunn, all that you stated is true. I thought as far as this forum reached, someone would have some actual experiences with his offspring. I have tried to find more info on him, but couldn't. I see him in there every month, and just had to hear the rest of the story. I am definitely going to use Boomer with the girls. But I can't help but want to try a little AIing too.
Larry Sansom, explain the negative EN to me. I need some educating.

 

[WORANCH]

I was looking at 9126 to use next year . BUT my partner brought a 9126 bull calf down from Nebraska a few months back . He would not make a good steer :shock: . He is very narrow butted . His dam is a Forever Lady cow . One of his doner cows . She has never produced a calf as bad as him . 9126 might work with other cows ,but I'm going to pass on him till I see more calves.
I have talked to some breeders that use him to just add numbers to EPD'S . But I havn't seen any of their calves yet.

 

[jscunn]

The EN is supposed to show how much or little Energy needs (feed) a cow is going to need. -100 EN (an exaggeration) will need to keep her head in the feed trough all the time. I would think of these as the large framed hard doing cows of the 1980s. A large positive # means the cows is extremely easy keeping and will not need much supplementation if any at all.

Like I said when I saw 420's dam at a plus 15, I knew the association had some kinks in the system. Most everything is between -10 and +10 but I have no idea what breed average is.

 

[Chuckie]

OK, I understand now. I just found EN on the Angus site. I was expecting to find it in the "Values" section, so I wasn't looking in the right area. Thanks JSCunn, you explained that one. Well I learned something new today. Thanks Larry for calling that detail to my attention.

 

[WORANCH]

Chuckie

this site my be alittle more updated



http://www.angussemen.com/epd.asp?ID=716

 

[Chuckie]

WORANCH, Thanks for your info. I do not want narrow butted cattle for sure. Doesn't sound good when the cow produced a calf less than what she normally does with this breeding. I will check out the site you posted now. Thanks!

 

[Chuckie]

I have wiped this bull out of my mind. Thanks JSCunn, Larry and WORANCH for pointing out some things I needed to pay a little more attention to. After looking up other bulls, WAR Aliance's EN is much lower than any others that I found to compare him to. He was a -13.43.

 

[Bluff Country Cattle]

Chuckie....I've seen several 9126 progeny and they are the real deal. Ask Accelerated Genetics and they will tell you how much semen is sold on him. You'll see a lot more progeny in the near future nationwide I'm sure. The bull passes on tremendous growth, length, and the they are not light muscled in comparison to some of the other lines. Complete EPD package that has withstood some time and now has higher accuracies. If you sell cattle by the pound, he'll do a lot of things right in most operartions. I wouldn't let the $EN values scare you off, cause they are not hard keepers, and will do a lot of things right. If I can figure out how to email ya, I'll send ya some pics of his progeny!

 

[Chuckie]

Bluff Country, check your pm.

 

[BA]

Have one - Extreme growth 92 lbs. BW - Not really thick, but very docile with all kinds of growth!

 

[Chuckie]

BA, Bluff Country sent a picture of his bull out of 9126, and he looks real nice. He weighed a 2700 lbs at 3yrs old. He also included two heifers that were really solid. These three didn't appear to be narrow at all.

 

[Bobg]

Any bull with Sitz breeding are pretty good. I know the Sitz family and they raise some good cattle.

Bobg

 

[DOC HARRIS]

WORANCH, Thanks for your info. I do not want narrow butted cattle for sure. Doesn't sound good when the cow produced a calf less than what she normally does with this breeding. I will check out the site you posted now. Thanks!

Chuckie - I call narrow butted stock "Funnel Butts" because they look like they have had their hind quarters jammed down in a funnel! Cow-hocked also.

 

[Chuckie]

Doc, I know the shape you are talking about. The tailhead sticks out further in a point than any part of the rump making it appear they were sitting in a funnel for a long time and never could pull out of the shape. They usually have no depth from the loin to the fullest part of the rump either, which makes their hindquarters appear to be weak. Usually the hindquarters sink in instead of being round with muscle. I like round.