AI certificates?

[Andyva]

Could someone please explain the concept of AI certificates to me? I'm a lifelong cattle producer but on the commercial end, looking into purebreds. Wondering why they don't just require a spent straw taped to the application for registry, charge more for the semen and call it a day. I can understand that semen producers want to price it to where commercial people will buy and use it, but if you want to register something out of their pretty bull and your scrub cow, you have to pay for that privilege.
My main question is, do you buy the certificates at the same time you get semen, and just base it on how many live calves you think you will get and want to register? Or, could you buy the semen and wait till calves were on the ground and then buy the certificates?

 

[dun]

Could someone please explain the concept of AI certificates to me? I'm a lifelong cattle producer but on the commercial end, looking into purebreds. Wondering why they don't just require a spent straw taped to the application for registry, charge more for the semen and call it a day. I can understand that semen producers want to price it to where commercial people will buy and use it, but if you want to register something out of their pretty bull and your scrub cow, you have to pay for that privilege.
My main question is, do you buy the certificates at the same time you get semen, and just base it on how many live calves you think you will get and want to register? Or, could you buy the semen and wait till calves were on the ground and then buy the certificates?

When the Red Angus Association still used AI certs we waited till we had a calf we wanted to register before buying the cert. We could enter the calving data for generation of EPDs and updating the records on the cow or the bull without registering the calf. Then when we decided to register it we would change it's status and send the cert. We really didn;t send a cert, when we bought a cert we had it sent to the association and it was kept on file till we used it.

 

[Andyva]

What if you buy ten straws of bull X. You breed ten cows that spring, and you get five calves. One of them was out of a heifer that freshened with no udder, so lets say you have 4 calves you want to register out of bull X. How many certificates do you send to the registry? 4, one for each calf, or just one to cover the bull? What if you kept a couple straws for next year?

 

[Alan]

I just got out of a conversation here about this, see the "SPH Wonder" thread under the breeds board. Let's say you buy 10 straws of semen for $20 each, breed 10 cows, you get 6 calves, 1 heifer and 5 bulls. Certs are $20 each but you only want to register the heifer and make the bull calves steers and sell them. So no need to register the steers. You paid $200 for the semen and only $20 for the cert, 6 calves cost you $220 to put on the ground. Same calf crop using a non cert bull, paid for the cert up front semen at $40 per straw. 10 straws, six calves, one heifer, this time it cost you $400 to put the calves on the ground. Cost you an extra $180 to prepay for the certs you didn't use.

The certs are only for being able to register the calves, you still have to pay the association fees.

I don't know if I gave you any new info or not, I hope it helped.

 

[dun]

1 cert for each calf you register

 

[Andyva]

So I guess it is up to the semen supply company whether or not you have to pre-purchase the certificates? It would make sense to me that it would be better to buy the certificates later when you were ready to register. If you bought ten straws and ten certificates, you could end up with eight calves and only two of them heifers. Or if you bought ten straws and five certificates you could end up with six heifers. I guess that was the main thing I was wondering about.

 

[Alan]

In Herefords it's up to the breeder of the marketed bull if he comes with certs, non cert bull, or you buy certs as seperate.. Not the semen company. Looks like you have it figured out.... And :welcome: to CT.

 

[dun]

Cerst aren;t that big of a deal. If you had to buy a cert for each unit of semen the commercail folks wouldn't do AI.
Check with whatever breed association for information on their policy.

 

[bse]

I can only speak for Angus buy all the semen you want only buy certificates after calves are born and you know you are gonna register them, I buy mine after Iwean and know there good enough to register. Call whatever company you purchased from buy what you need on whatever bull the company will forward the certificate to the association into a bank in your name and as you register them the certificate is taken out of your bank. One calf one certificate ten calves ten certificates.

 

[Andyva]

Well, I'm kind of looking at going in the Shorthorn direction. Never liked the idea of buying heifers or cows, always just brought in a bull. Closed herd kind of thing. Mostly been going Angus/Hereford back and forth for years, with a continental breed thrown in here and there. Never gave purebreds a second thought. Shorthorns have what you might call an open registry, so I could breed up to pure on some if I'm able. I'm not looking to set any trends or anything, but it would be kind of nice to take some of the genetics of these old cows that have been on the place for three generations and attach them to something with a pedigree. They had Shorthorn in them way back, and I think that is what they have been lacking, and that's why I chose that direction. That and I cant jump up in pickup truck beds like I used to, so I'm not as interested in some of the other stuff now. Just something to mess with, if they do good for me, somebody local might want a bull or two. But, it's not going to happen overnight.

 

[gizmom]

We order certificates when the calf is good enough to register, otherwise we don't register the calf it either goes to the sale barn or commercial herd. No reason to invest in a certificate unless the calf is a good one.

Gizmom

 

[Fire Sweep Ranch]

Or use a breed that does not require a certificate, like Simmental!

 

[Andyva]

Thanks for the replies, that makes it all sound less scary and expensive. Thanks just the same on the Simmentals, just my own personal opinion, but I hope the last purebred Simmental I ever have to deal with is the one that used my right leg to bend a gate in half. That one threw black calves, my calf was black for weeks.

 

[lakading]

A.I. Certificates are a way for breed associations to make money and a way for bull owners to help ensure that the poor progeny don't make it into the breed registry.

 

[shortybreeder]

Well, I had a good response, but the internet got messed up... :bang: :bang:
Here are the highlights of it I guess;
-black calves can only be registered as up to 50% shorthorn, so with your second generation of breeding to purebred I wouldn't waste my time registering anything black (unless it is a really good heifer you plan to keep and breed to purebred status)
-Are you going commercial or show purposes? I'm assuming commercial from previous posts, but just want to make sure.
-JSF has good commercial-oriented carcass studs out there
-Saskvalley has good commercial-oriented maternal studs out there
-Leveldale would be a good place to look for buying high quality registered replacements
-registration fees are the same up to 12 months of age, so there's no rush to decide which calves to register
-I would recommend becoming a member if you plan to register more than 1 or 2 calves per year, because non-members pay a hefty fee to register calves :shock:
- :welcome: to the breed and CT!
-Feel free to PM me any questions about certain sires for going into the purebred deal, I'm relatively new myself but have established some good, trustworthy contacts that I can either refer you to or ask for advice on various bulls/programs.

 

[pdfangus]

every breed handles ai certifdicates differently and the rules often change....

contact the breed association.....

back when AI first started you bought a package of two ampules and one certificate....that did not last long as it seldom fit....

 

[Andyva]

A.I. Certificates are a way for breed associations to make money and a way for bull owners to help ensure that the poor progeny don't make it into the breed registry.

Well, I can see that. It makes sense to let commercial breeders use your bull and brag about it at the barber shop, but at the same time, if somebody want's to breed their pet cow with knock knees and a wry face to your bull, and then put the offspring out there advertised as progeny of your bull, you would want some money for that.

I sent you a PM shortybreeder, I will probably have a lot of questions.