Advice (or comments) on epd's

[docgraybull]

Glad to hear that it helped!

That website is going to make this bull buying venture a blast - or spin my head around! :help:

Beings your from "God's Country", have to tell ya' that I sure was disappointed about OSU's loss last night.

Me too, but fortunately the wrestlers came through and carried the torch for the Pokes! National Champions again - three years in a row!

Spent some of the best years of my life in Stillwater.

No wonder you're so smart! ;-) I enjoyed some time there too. Where were you mostly - Tumbleweed, Desperado, or down on the strip?

 

[KB]

Lived just down "Northside" (I think that was the name of the road), east of the Weed. Go figure :lol:

 

[docgraybull]

CED at or over +4
BW under 2.5
WW around 40 preferably over
Milk 15-22 - go to http://www.angus.org and they have a new thing on there that calculates what your herd needs in order to be a economicly productive herd
YW around 80

Is there that much of a significant difference in a BW of < 2.5 and < 3 when the bull is to be used on heifers? If so, I might consider lowering the threshold on BW. I did the milk epd calculation on the website and came out with 18 - 22 (right in there with your recommendation). Since I will be selling steers shortly after weaning, is YW (as opposed to WW) that important? If so, I might consider raising the threshold to 80 (from 70).

 

[KB]

Interesting question about the difference in the birth weight between 2.5 and 3.0....

I think the Angus Association will tell you to stay less than 2.5 birth for English type heifers....we recommend to our Angus customers to go 1.5 or less. Of course, being in the seedstock business, we'd like to error on the conservative side of the issue rather than get one of our customers in wreck.

I agree with your thoughts of putting more pressure on the Weaning Wt EPD if that is how you are marketing your calves.

 

[la4angus]

Since I will be selling steers shortly after weaning, is YW (as opposed to WW) that important? If so, I might consider raising the threshold to 80 (from 70).

The higher YW of 80 as opposed to YW of 70 should give you growthier calves to sell post weaning. In this situation YW as opposed to WW could be very important..

 

[docgraybull]

Lived just down "Northside" (I think that was the name of the road), east of the Weed. Go figure :lol:

Yeah I swerved down that road on occasion. Usually on Thursday night! That road used to be a profitable place for a young man with a 4 wheel drive and a stout chain, especially on a snowy or icy night. Usually at about 2:15 am! 8)

 

[docgraybull]

The higher YW of 80 as opposed to YW of 70 should give you growthier calves to sell post weaning. In this situation YW as opposed to WW could be very important..

Will the YW of 80 be a significant factor even if the steers will be sold 14-28 days after weaning?

 

[KB]

My how times have changed....here it is Friday night (er, Saturday morning) and not quite closing time....and here we all sit on our computers in the comforts of home!

 

[la4angus]

The higher YW of 80 as opposed to YW of 70 should give you growthier calves to sell post weaning. In this situation YW as opposed to WW could be very important..

Will the YW of 80 be a significant factor even if the steers will be sold 14-28 days after weaning?

IMO this would give growthier calves to sell.

 

[jscunn]

Doc you might also want to consider Scrotal Circumference EPD and make sure it is positive. Some studies have shown a correlation between Scrotal Circ. EPD and fertility in his daughters. Also low SC bulls MAY have trouble breeding lots of cows. I personally would lower your BW target to 2.0 to 2.5. If your heifers are pretty wide and well taken care of at calving 3 should be OK. I dont want to get into the milk discussion because I am from the deep south and we have grass almost year round if you consider our oat and rye grass winter pasture. One of our bulls milk EPD is 29 but I dont have any cows out of him just bred heifers. Consider your environment on the milk.

 

[BA]

If you are using the bull on heifers I wouldn't go above 1.5 BW, but make sure the actual weight isn't big also. Don't forget to use within herd ratios. I would rather have a bull with a 110 WW Ratio and a 30 WW EPD over a bull with a 99 WW Ratio and a WW EPD of 40. Don't forget the basics, EPD's are a guide only! Eye appeal and conformation are still the best for producing the "Type" of cattle that you want.

 

[greenwillowherefords]

Graybull, you've got to be pretty close to me if you are in NE OK. I'd say go for all the milk you want on the first generation and see what happens. JMO

 

[Jake]

CED at or over +4
BW under 2.5
WW around 40 preferably over
Milk 15-22 - go to http://www.angus.org and they have a new thing on there that calculates what your herd needs in order to be a economicly productive herd
YW around 80

Is there that much of a significant difference in a BW of < 2.5 and < 3 when the bull is to be used on heifers? If so, I might consider lowering the threshold on BW. I did the milk epd calculation on the website and came out with 18 - 22 (right in there with your recommendation). Since I will be selling steers shortly after weaning, is YW (as opposed to WW) that important? If so, I might consider raising the threshold to 80 (from 70).

2.5 is the ABSOLUTE highest I'd use on heifers! I'd prefer something less than 1.0, make sure they have a low actual birthweight to.

 

[Dana Kopp]

I would also take a look at the Accuracy of the EPDs - I have found that they are often so low on young bulls that you really have to take them loosely.

I am also in the market for a new heifer bull - I have looked at the EPDs and pedigrees of LOTS and just can't make up my mind. The one I am leaning toward right now is out of SAF 598 Bando 5175. The sire (Bando) is not necessarily known for being a calving ease sire (+5.2 .97 acc) but the dam is known in his herd for throwing bulls with good calving ease. The bull himself has CED of +9/.28 acc CEM +7/.27 and BW +1.1/.29 and was 67 or 68 pounds at birth. I know my cows and heifers add pounds to the birthweight themselves so I don't want to push the weights any more than I have to. Anyone know how much paternal bw/EPDs can influence bws of their grand-get? Two other bulls I may be looking at are sired by BR Midland and Northern Improvement, known calving ease sires, I haven't seen EPDs on the young bulls though. Any thoughts?

 

[Frankie]

An opinion:

I wouldn't us any 5175 son on heifers. Northern Improvement is a Stockman 365 son (BW EPD 4.6). NI is a proven heifer bull, but that higher BW EPD lurks closely in his background. So, IMO, I wouldn't use a son of his on heifers either. That leaves us Midland. What's the dam's breeding?