A question for the experts. creep feeding pure bred calves

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redangus

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When trying to be a cooperative breeder to one of the big pure breed outfits, is it advantageous to creep feed your calves? Some breeders say yes while others say no.

For the no crowd, they usually cite that you cannot tell if your cow is raising the calf or if the creep feed is doing it. I can see that point, but I also know breeders that do creep feed send calves to sales that are 100-150 lbs heavier. There calves usually bring more money, and they make the final cuts more often than not. What do some of you pure breeders think....you too Dun
 

txshowmom

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We creep feed our calves and if we sell them then we make more at the salebarn and if we keep them they grow better and (for us) just make better cows.
 
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redangus

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Do you get the money back that you put into creep? Also, what about culling non-productive cows? How do you know if it's the creep or the cow?
 

txshowmom

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Yes we do get our money back. We don't start creeping them untill about 3 months so we can pretty well tell who is milking and who is not. Some cows never get a real big bag but can still raise a heck of a calf. Since we are a cow calf operation we retain ownership of most of the heifers and we can tell over time which mama are producing good calves for us. We have some cows that when you look at them you wouln'd give 100 bucks for them but I have seen what they produce year after year and I wouln't let them go for anything. So in answer to you question yes we do get our money back and it just takes time to know who can and can't raise a good calf.
 

TheBullLady

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We creep feed our calves from the first.. or whenever they wander into the creep feed pen.

Since we sell some show calves and lots of replacement heifers, I think it's worth the money. The calves always look good, and get a good start on being fed. That will make a difference when you wean also.
 

greenwillowherefords

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redangus":1f1agd7h said:
When trying to be a cooperative breeder to one of the big pure breed outfits, is it advantageous to creep feed your calves? Some breeders say yes while others say no.

For the no crowd, they usually cite that you cannot tell if your cow is raising the calf or if the creep feed is doing it. I can see that point, but I also know breeders that do creep feed send calves to sales that are 100-150 lbs heavier. There calves usually bring more money, and they make the final cuts more often than not. What do some of you pure breeders think....you too Dun
If a person is selling bulls to commercial breeders who don't creep, they can give a more certain idea how his daughters will perform without help. I don't free choice, but a mouthful here and there to have the calves used to eating, and to keep them hand-tame. I move my cattle wherever I want them to go with a five-gallon bucket.
 

hillbilly 2

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I don't creep for a different reason.
In our market they dock fat calves, that paired with the cost of the feed
makes it a lose, lose deal for me.
JMHO [just my hillbilly opinion]
 

Tod Dague

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I don't creep feed. I kind of like to see what the mama can do and how well she holds up.
:cboy:
Tod
 

Frankie

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redangus":yqw55368 said:
When trying to be a cooperative breeder to one of the big pure breed outfits, is it advantageous to creep feed your calves? Some breeders say yes while others say no.

For the no crowd, they usually cite that you cannot tell if your cow is raising the calf or if the creep feed is doing it. I can see that point, but I also know breeders that do creep feed send calves to sales that are 100-150 lbs heavier. There calves usually bring more money, and they make the final cuts more often than not. What do some of you pure breeders think....you too Dun

We are not a "cooperative breeder", so I don't know how relevant this is, but we don't creep feed our registered Angus calves. There have been some very bad years that we've weaned them early because there wasn't any grass and we were feeding cows hay. It just didn't make any sense to feed the cows hay so they could continue to nurse the calf. I think we weaned them at about three months old and they had acceptable 205 day weights.

This year we weaned five registered bull calves to get them ready for taking to the bull test station. Their average adjusted 205 day weight was 766 lbs., so I don't see any need to creep. We don't necessarily have weights like that every year, but we had more grass this year and fewer cows than we've ever had. It's been a remarkable summer here.

How does your agreement with the breeder you're cooperating with work?
 

Tc

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766lb at 205 days angus bulls. with no creep! i think your full of sh crap.i guess thats what you called in on your epd's also?if any body beleves this crap ive got a golden bridge ill sell you real cheep.its just more angus salesman bullsh-crap.~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Tc
 

hillbilly 2

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easy TC, take a breath while I tell you about another big one.
I once bought a bred "cow" that was suposed to be bred to the biggest "bull" in america.
When the calf finally came it weighed 280 pounds.
After just 4 months it tipped the scales at a whopping 1108#.

They were a freaky new breed with long noses, "Elephants?"
They didn't catch on, They could eat a 4x4 bale in one bite.
And my poor little bull was scared of her.

Not a total loss, I sold her for slaughter at .36 per pound and walked a way with a check for $5760.00

Hillbilly
 

greenwillowherefords

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Tc said:
766lb at 205 days angus bulls. with no creep! i think your full of sh be nice.i guess thats what you called in on your epd's also?if any body beleves this be nice ive got a golden bridge ill sell you real cheep.its just more angus salesman bullsh-be nice.~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Tc[/quote

I believe Frankie. Just how small would the calf have to be to believe it? If we brought weaning weights from 400 pounds to the fives and sixes, then why can't selection breeding give us sevens? I guess you really wouldn't believe that Canadian National Champion (over all breeds) and American Hereford Champion Remitall Online had a 205 of 970! Please take no offense at me. I've not heard whether he was creeped, but I suspect he was.
 

ollie

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I don't think what Frankie said is unbelievable. Notice he said adjusted. Several calves of mine will weigh that at weaning each year. Sometimes more.
 

Frankie

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Tc":3bwe2rkk said:
766lb at 205 days angus bulls. with no creep! i think your full of sh be nice.i guess thats what you called in on your epd's also?if any body beleves this be nice ive got a golden bridge ill sell you real cheep.its just more angus salesman bullsh-be nice.~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Tc

LOL! I don't care if you believe me or not. Why would I lie? I'm not selling anything. We're small breeders using the top AI bulls that anyone can use. (Well, some of them are dead now and the semen is no longer available, so that's not quite accurate.) Our cows are daughters and granddaughters of top AI bulls. Most of our bulls go to test stations where they compete with the top breeders in my area and they do well. We sell most of them in the test station sale and do well there, too.

The AVERAGE WW for Angus bulls last year was 642 lbs and I'm not raising average Angus.

Our top bull actually weighed 920 lbs, but adjusted to 859 lbs. for 205 day weight. His dam is a Traveler 71 granddaughter and a very heavy milker. Last year a full brother adjusted back to 779 at 205 days, but we have more grass this year. That bull had an adj. YW of 1318 lbs. You can bet she's bred back to the same bull, Bando 5175. Her calving interval for six calves (she was born in '97) is 341 days. She's not a pretty cow, looks like she's been put together with spare parts, but she raises a very good calf EVERY YEAR.

IMO, the reason Angus remains so dominant in the beef industry is because people like you set around and deny what Angus cattle can do instead of working on your own breed. Angus bulls are the most used in the industry because they can produce muscle, marbling and good replacements.
 

ollie

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Frankie":2p3aki19 said:
Tc":2p3aki19 said:
766lb at 205 days angus bulls. with no creep! i think your full of sh be nice.i guess thats what you called in on your epd's also?if any body beleves this be nice ive got a golden bridge ill sell you real cheep.its just more angus salesman bullsh-be nice.~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Tc

LOL! I don't care if you believe me or not. Why would I lie? I'm not selling anything. We're small breeders using the top AI bulls that anyone can use. (Well, some of them are dead now and the semen is no longer available, so that's not quite accurate.) Our cows are daughters and granddaughters of top AI bulls. Most of our bulls go to test stations where they compete with the top breeders in my area and they do well. We sell most of them in the test station sale and do well there, too.

The AVERAGE WW for Angus bulls last year was 642 lbs and I'm not raising average Angus.

Our top bull actually weighed 920 lbs, but adjusted to 859 lbs. for 205 day weight. His dam is a Traveler 71 granddaughter and a very heavy milker. Last year a full brother adjusted back to 779 at 205 days, but we have more grass this year. That bull had an adj. YW of 1318 lbs. You can bet she's bred back to the same bull, Bando 5175. Her calving interval for six calves (she was born in '97) is 341 days. She's not a pretty cow, looks like she's been put together with spare parts, but she raises a very good calf EVERY YEAR.

IMO, the reason Angus remains so dominant in the beef industry is because people like you set around and deny what Angus cattle can do instead of working on your own breed. Angus bulls are the most used in the industry because they can produce muscle, marbling and good replacements.

Easy there little rooster. Take your thumbs out from under your galluses. Public relations is not your strong suit.
 

Texan

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ollie":ati4elwa said:
I don't think what Frankie said is unbelievable.
This has got to be the most newsworthy quote of the day! I had to read it three times. Frankie's probably in a state of shock! ;-)
 

la4angus

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Texan":39vxjh9d said:
ollie":39vxjh9d said:
I don't think what Frankie said is unbelievable.
This has got to be the most newsworthy quote of the day! I had to read it three times. Frankie's probably in a state of shock! ;-)

See there txshowmom, ollie has learned a little about cattle from reading the CT boards. He may take some of his learning and apply it to his Oklahoma sheep breeding program.
 

ollie

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Texan":2tuxpo3m said:
ollie":2tuxpo3m said:
I don't think what Frankie said is unbelievable.
This has got to be the most newsworthy quote of the day! I had to read it three times. Frankie's probably in a state of shock! ;-)
I am the one who believes weights remember. I would have expected Frankie and the rest of you guys to say who cares about actual data.
 

ollie

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Come to think of it Frankie why didn't you just take the five highest ww epd's ?
 

Tc

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iv never seen a strate angus calfe go much over 500 on grass.thats the reason i dont like angus.they grow to slow.an all this ajusted weight stuf is just a buntch of nonsence to me.~~~~~~~~~~~~~Tc
 

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