5 yrs for burning 139 acres of BLM

[backhoeboogie]

When LaVoy goes around the roadblock and supposedly nearly runs over an agent
You can see that agent step our from behind the roadblock in the pathway and it appears he is putting rounds into the vehicle

Right. You look at the still shot above. Both hands extended out in a complacent gesture. He's surrounded. In the open. If I were electing to engage these feds I would atleast be face down in the snow getting whatever cover I could find. Probably rolling toward the trees and shooting from the ground. No one would be standing vertical in the wide open with their hands spread out. That's a submissive posture.

 

[fenceman]

A wise man said something about eating crap sandwiches because that's all your being fed.

I don't know what I would do out there in the snow with a suv full of armed men coming at me. Might shyt myself idk. Nobody knows until their there. I understand that.

I've let many a employee of the hook that called and said something like " boss I got to drunk last night. ..I'll fire one in a heartbeat if I catch em lying to me. A person that will lie to you will steal from you.

I think my government is lying to me. A big ole shyt sandwich
I think if they would just say what happened out there honestly.
"Well old Scully got a little skeered and fired one off, things went to shyt after that". I think I would understand. Just don't like being lied to

 

[Cross-7]

When LaVoy goes around the roadblock and supposedly nearly runs over an agent
You can see that agent step our from behind the roadblock in the pathway and it appears he is putting rounds into the vehicle

To add if there is a road block set up
Spike strips in the road and you go around the spikes and the roadblock while trying to evade arrest
Chances are you will be fired on

If it's a murderer, rapist, violent criminal then it's justified in my mind.
But was it necessary knowing there where innocent girls in the vehicle

 

[Workinonit Farm]

But was it necessary knowing there where innocent girls in the vehicle

No.

 

[Dave]

I had a letter from a Harney County resident come across facebook. I tried to copy it to here but either my computer isn't cooperating or I am just too computer illiterate to get it done. Anyway it tells the story of a young lady who is a teacher in French Glen. She is refusing to go to work. Her and her four young school age children have been terrorized by the feds. And not just once. Young kids held at gun point and made to stand with their hands on the roof of the car. Mom forced to march toward the feds while at gun point. And all just to show them her drivers license. The kids are crying at night and want to move away from there. She doesn't have anything good to say about these Federal officers. French Glen is 45-50 miles south of Burns. It must be at least 20 miles from the refuge building where the militia took over. And that building is not on the main road between French Glen and Burns. But French Glen is pretty close to the Hammond's ranch. Most of the locals didn't support the Bundy take over but they are holding the Feds in much lower regard. Bundy and associates minded their manners. The feds aren't at all.

 

[Bigfoot]

I had been wanting to ask a friend in law enforcement about this for a few days, and I finally did. He didn't come out, and say anything about the shooting. He did make some comments that made me wonder. Why would a total of 3 officers step out in to an exposed position? Where was LaVoy in danger of running to? They had a drone in the air, and 2 feet of snow on the ground. How far would a 55 year old man be able to run in those conditions? From survelience, they new somebody was in the car that was not part of the siege.

Edited to ad-----They advanced on him, the others in the vehicle surrendered in a totally different fashion.

 

[gimpyrancher]

http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/weaver/spenceletter.html

Randy moved to Montana. Or he/they did a few years ago. I think any comparison between these two incidents would likely make Randy very unhappy. He guards his family's tragic story.

 

[Kathie in Thorp]

Cross-7, I've watched those videos, too, and I'm not seeing what you are. Help me out with that. I'm not seeing any flash like from a muzzle blast; I'm not seeing (until Finicum is shot) any firearm recoil with the officers. I have not seen any reports about the number of rounds fired, where his wound were, or when the shooting started except for those of vehicle occupants and they don't all say the same thing. ??

 

[gimpyrancher]

Bigfoot,

> Where was LaVoy in danger of running to? They had a drone in the air, and 2 feet of snow on the ground. How far would a 55 year old man be able to run in those conditions?

He wasn't shot for running. He didn't keep his hands in sight. He knew what was going on. If there are many guns, some fully automatic pointed at you, and numerous LEOs shouting demands, if that doesn't make you stop reaching into your clothes, perhaps it's not unreasonable to assume there is a real threat. He was taped as saying, if they aim at me, he'd aim back.

> From survelience, they new somebody was in the car that was not part of the siege.

If anyone was voluntarily in the vehicle, they ARE part of the whole. Like riding in a old VW van full of dope smoking hippies and claiming you didn't know they were smoking dope.

 

[Cross-7]

Cross-7, I've watched those videos, too, and I'm not seeing what you are. Help me out with that. I'm not seeing any flash like from a muzzle blast; I'm not seeing (until Finicum is shot) any firearm recoil with the officers. I have not seen any reports about the number of rounds fired, where his wound were, or when the shooting started except for those of vehicle occupants and they don't all say the same thing. ??

At 9:16 the agent runs out from behind the vehicles in the roadblock into the path of the vehicle driven by LaVoy.
As stated before at 9:34 the agent that fired the fatal shot to LaVoy reaches to his right hip/back region.
At 9:38 looks at his weapon and as he is moving ejects the mag and inserts a new mag

I don't think what is to be reported can be trusted
I am sure it will be reported that one fatal to the head was the only shot fired other than the nonlethal flashbangs to safely remove the occupants of the vehicle

I'm not saying that LaVoy was in the right and the FBI was in the wrong
LaVoy should have surrendered and kept up the fight if he felt so strongly about it that he would give his life to it.
I can see the agent being amped up in that situation knowing they were armed and had made it clear that they would fight back and return fire if fired upon.
Lavoy never fully surrenders and is moving erratically while dropping his hands to his waist and turns to face the agent that fatally shoots him.

But as Bigfoot said they could have stay behind cover and handled it differently, as he said he wasnt going anywhere, two foot of snow, agents everywhere and a drone in the air.

 

[boondocks]

Seems to me the most likely "bottom-line" is the one someone posted a few pages back: that he really didn't want to go to prison, and didn't necessarily want to kill someone. He knew he was done. Suicide by cop, an old story.

No doubt the agents believed he'd be heavily armed and come out shooting--he'd said as much, had he not?

Also, I don't know how realistic a view you get watching these videos repeatedly or in slo-mo, etc. Don't have the luxury of instant re-play or stop-action etc in real life...

 

[ChrisB]

Seems to me the most likely "bottom-line" is the one someone posted a few pages back: that he really didn't want to go to prison, and didn't necessarily want to kill someone. He knew he was done. Suicide by cop, an old story.

No doubt the agents believed he'd be heavily armed and come out shooting--he'd said as much, had he not?

Also, I don't know how realistic a view you get watching these videos repeatedly or in slo-mo, etc. Don't have the luxury of instant re-play or stop-action etc in real life...

I agree.

My take on the guy that almost got run into - He was behind the vehicles in the roadblock as Lavoy sped toward them. To me it looks like he thought Lavoy's truck was going to ram into the truck he was standing behind since Lavoy wasn't coming to a stop. I think the guy was just trying to get out of the way of what he thought was going to be a wreck.

But in the end, people are going to believe what they want to believe. All the evidence in the world could prove things one way or the other and it won't change anyone's mind.

 

[W.T]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwHxUvMbIIw

 

[Cross-7]

Indictment against Ammon Bundy, others unsealed

http://www.statesmanjournal.com/story/n ... /79808808/

Oregon lawmaker wants armed refuge occupiers to pay standoff bill

Read more: http://www.kptv.com/story/31134620/oreg ... z3zECAZisF

 

[True Grit Farms]

Oregon lawmaker wants armed refuge occupiers to pay standoff bill

Read more: http://www.kptv.com/story/31134620/oreg ... z3zECAZisF[/quote]

What a double standard against the working folks. First they kill a protester and now the government is going to file civil charges against them to make them pay. There's no way to beat a civil charge.
But I guaranteed you the food stamps, unemployment, and welfare is still rolling into Ferguson, Chicago and Baltimore. The hard working folks are getting screwed again. And the freeloading deadbeats are getting rewards. Thanks DC, This is BS.

 

[Cross-7]

Shawna Cox statement

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B__um6 ... ef=2&pli=1

 

[Dave]

Oregon lawmaker wants armed refuge occupiers to pay standoff bill

Read more: http://www.kptv.com/story/31134620/oreg ... z3zECAZisF

What a double standard against the working folks. First they kill a protester and now the government is going to file civil charges against them to make them pay. There's no way to beat a civil charge.
But I guaranteed you the food stamps, unemployment, and welfare is still rolling into Ferguson, Chicago and Baltimore. The hard working folks are getting screwed again. And the freeloading deadbeats are getting rewards. Thanks DC, This is BS.[/quote]

Ferguson, Chicago, and Baltimore they were protesting against a local police dept. Harney County they were protesting against the federal government. Protest against local government and the feds will come investigate your allegations. Protest against the federal government and they will step on you like a bug.

 

[gimpyrancher]

But as Bigfoot said they could have stay behind cover and handled it differently, as he said he wasnt going anywhere, two foot of snow, agents everywhere and a drone in the air.

The reasonable question c/would be, if they waited, what then?

When these clowns came to Oregon and took over federal property, the government decided to wait and see. How did that work out? If they did the same thing again, should they have expected a better outcome, or given them a lot more time to think of ways to fight back?

Once the first shot was fired, time had drawn to an end..

 

[Cross-7]

I just feel there are better ways than to take a man's life

Think about it
All they did was camp at a government building
Is that worth killing someone ?

I had always wondered how when evil comes into power why people would be loyal and they always have such a following

 

[TexasBred]

I just feel there are better ways than to take a man's life

Think about it
All they did was camp at a government building
Is that worth killing someone ?

I had always wondered how when evil comes into power why people would be loyal and they always have such a following

Cross like it not the man that got killed wanted to get killed. Now he's a martyr instead of in prison and everybody else is left to clean up the mess.