44 Farms partners with Walmart??

[callmefence]

I can run about 10 on 116 acres. That's if it's pretty fair land.
My experience with cows that size is they don't do well on Rocky ground.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

I can run about 10 on 116 acres. That's if it's pretty fair land.
My experience with cows that size is they don't do well on Rocky ground.

This is why we have such diversity in our cattle - or SHOULD have.
IMO - BH's cattle are obese. I would scold anyone I was advising if they got their cattle in that condition. But, if they work for him and don't have breeding problems or calving problems, not for us to scold. He has been doing this long enough to know what works for him.
For others reading this, I would warn, DO NOT let your heifers get this obese prior to breeding. Once a milk cell fills with fat, it will NEVER produce milk. So, a chubby little weaned heifer - or - fat yearling ready for breeding should NOT be your goal. Most on here knows I am into showing my cattle, which show cattle have to have a little layer. LITTLE layer is key, you do not want her with a fat udder. Yes, I see lots of them. Doesn't make it right for them later on in life as a cow.

 

[Ky hills]

140 hd on 116 acres in fleming co with no grain and crap hay.. all weighing 1500 - 1700 lbs??


yea.. thats not going to happen.

At least not for long.

 

[CattleMan1920]

140 hd on 116 acres in fleming co with no grain and crap hay.. all weighing 1500 - 1700 lbs??


yea.. thats not going to happen.

At least not for long.

PM me and I will give you the address so you can go see them. He rotated them every few days, between lots. I never said they were all cows, they were cows/calves, heifers, steers, 3 bulls. He never fed grain, ever. His hay wasn't crap, but it wasn't great either. He would sell about 35-45 steers a year, and would sell heifers and cows to thin things down. He maintained about 95 cows at any given time, most were from Branded. He often told me "i know I'm running too many, but it's working" The new owner has removed some of them and dropped the herd count, but there are still probably 70-80 head on 86 acres.

As I said before, that's too concentrated for me. But he was in his 80's and had cattle since he was a teenager, he wasn't a rookie.

 

[Ky hills]

"I don't think you are suggesting to starve down the cattle, in which case they might be somewhat smaller"
Not so much smaller but in a more normal body condition score. The cost to pack fat on a cow is not a cost that most beef producers care to afford and does not suggest fertility or femininity. To have obese cattle is as extreme as having cattle too thin. My opinion from your pictures: your cattle would melt in a most commercial operations.

Go next door to me, an Amish gentleman has over 60 daughters and granddaughters that we culled and sold to a farmer who had the operation before him (he passed away, and it was bought by the Amish gentleman). He ran a total of around 130-145 head at any given time on around 116 acres. Everyone around here knew him. His herd was never given grain, the hay was marginal, and they were crowded. The cows were on average 1500-1700 pounds. Again, he ran them as lean as he could, not how I would have done it. Even so, the cows were big and threw off big, healthy calves. Before he passed he used a Tenx son and a EXAR Denver son, as well as a Boyd bull on them, and he had some very nice fancy black steers, that brought top dollar. If you were nearby, I could show you those cows and daughters to back up what I'm saying. He owned several generations of them, and they performed, in what was definitely a commercial operation.

I have some friends in the Fleming and Lewis County areas, in my observation the land is at least fairly comparable in terms of forage types and average stocking rates to here in Clark County. One of them lived close by a situation of heavy stocking on small acreage. He said the land was eaten into the ground, and the cattle were constantly getting out.
On our farm we are overstocked by most people's standards. Averaging around 80 to 90 head at any given time. 50 or 60 of those are usually calves weaned or yearlings. I supplement the cows almost every day in the winter with around 3 lbs of grain, to supplement our low quality hay. The calves and yearlings get roughly 5 to 6 lbs of grain per day in addition to the same hay. I also will feed the cows similar amounts less often during the summer to keep them coming up and easily handled. Our cows are likely average weights of 1400+, they stay in relatively good shape and if they were in comparable condition to those I turned the would weigh quite a bit more. If I did not supplement the pastures would be eaten into oblivion,
I am not questioning the integrity of the poster, but with the said stocking rate per acre and no supplementation on the neighbors farm, there has to be more to this story that is not known. Under usual circumstances I would think that the pastures would soon be eaten into the ground and fences would not hold the cattle for long.

 

[Ky hills]

140 hd on 116 acres in fleming co with no grain and crap hay.. all weighing 1500 - 1700 lbs??


yea.. thats not going to happen.

At least not for long.

PM me and I will give you the address so you can go see them. He rotated them every few days, between lots. I never said they were all cows, they were cows/calves, heifers, steers, 3 bulls. He never fed grain, ever. His hay wasn't crap, but it wasn't great either. He would sell about 35-45 steers a year, and would sell heifers and cows to thin things down. He maintained about 95 cows at any given time, most were from Branded. He often told me "i know I'm running too many, but it's working" The new owner has removed some of them and dropped the herd count, but there are still probably 70-80 head on 86 acres.

As I said before, that's too concentrated for me. But he was in his 80's and had cattle since he was a teenager, he wasn't a rookie.

I thought there was likely more to the story. Rotating frequently, and not all cows could make some difference. I agree it's too heavily stocked for what I am comfortable with too, and I think I am pushing it.

 

[Bright Raven]

"I don't think you are suggesting to starve down the cattle, in which case they might be somewhat smaller"
Not so much smaller but in a more normal body condition score. The cost to pack fat on a cow is not a cost that most beef producers care to afford and does not suggest fertility or femininity. To have obese cattle is as extreme as having cattle too thin. My opinion from your pictures: your cattle would melt in a most commercial operations.

Go next door to me, an Amish gentleman has over 60 daughters and granddaughters that we culled and sold to a farmer who had the operation before him (he passed away, and it was bought by the Amish gentleman). He ran a total of around 130-145 head at any given time on around 116 acres. Everyone around here knew him. His herd was never given grain, the hay was marginal, and they were crowded. The cows were on average 1500-1700 pounds. Again, he ran them as lean as he could, not how I would have done it. Even so, the cows were big and threw off big, healthy calves. Before he passed he used a Tenx son and a EXAR Denver son, as well as a Boyd bull on them, and he had some very nice fancy black steers, that brought top dollar. If you were nearby, I could show you those cows and daughters to back up what I'm saying. He owned several generations of them, and they performed, in what was definitely a commercial operation.

I have some friends in the Fleming and Lewis County areas, in my observation the land is at least fairly comparable in terms of forage types and average stocking rates to here in Clark County. One of them lived close by a situation of heavy stocking on small acreage. He said the land was eaten into the ground, and the cattle were constantly getting out.
On our farm we are overstocked by most people's standards. Averaging around 80 to 90 head at any given time. 50 or 60 of those are usually calves weaned or yearlings. I supplement the cows almost every day in the winter with around 3 lbs of grain, to supplement our low quality hay. The calves and yearlings get roughly 5 to 6 lbs of grain per day in addition to the same hay. I also will feed the cows similar amounts less often during the summer to keep them coming up and easily handled. Our cows are likely average weights of 1400+, they stay in relatively good shape and if they were in comparable condition to those I turned the would weigh quite a bit more. If I did not supplement the pastures would be eaten into oblivion,
I am not questioning the integrity of the poster, but with the said stocking rate per acre and no supplementation on the neighbors farm, there has to be more to this story that is not known. Under usual circumstances I would think that the pastures would soon be eaten into the ground and fences would not hold the cattle for long.

It can be done. It is a function of how much time you put into it and your skill at intensive pasture rotation. Fire Sweep Simmental in Missouri pastures 30 mature cows with calves on a total of 40 acres. The acres dedicated to pasture is probably 25 acres. They strip graze. And they been doing it for several years. How do I know? I manage it for them for week every year.

 

[Bright Raven]

Go next door to me, an Amish gentleman has over 60 daughters and granddaughters that we culled and sold to a farmer who had the operation before him (he passed away, and it was bought by the Amish gentleman). He ran a total of around 130-145 head at any given time on around 116 acres. Everyone around here knew him. His herd was never given grain, the hay was marginal, and they were crowded. The cows were on average 1500-1700 pounds. Again, he ran them as lean as he could, not how I would have done it. Even so, the cows were big and threw off big, healthy calves. Before he passed he used a Tenx son and a EXAR Denver son, as well as a Boyd bull on them, and he had some very nice fancy black steers, that brought top dollar. If you were nearby, I could show you those cows and daughters to back up what I'm saying. He owned several generations of them, and they performed, in what was definitely a commercial operation.

I have some friends in the Fleming and Lewis County areas, in my observation the land is at least fairly comparable in terms of forage types and average stocking rates to here in Clark County. One of them lived close by a situation of heavy stocking on small acreage. He said the land was eaten into the ground, and the cattle were constantly getting out.
On our farm we are overstocked by most people's standards. Averaging around 80 to 90 head at any given time. 50 or 60 of those are usually calves weaned or yearlings. I supplement the cows almost every day in the winter with around 3 lbs of grain, to supplement our low quality hay. The calves and yearlings get roughly 5 to 6 lbs of grain per day in addition to the same hay. I also will feed the cows similar amounts less often during the summer to keep them coming up and easily handled. Our cows are likely average weights of 1400+, they stay in relatively good shape and if they were in comparable condition to those I turned the would weigh quite a bit more. If I did not supplement the pastures would be eaten into oblivion,
I am not questioning the integrity of the poster, but with the said stocking rate per acre and no supplementation on the neighbors farm, there has to be more to this story that is not known. Under usual circumstances I would think that the pastures would soon be eaten into the ground and fences would not hold the cattle for long.

It can be done. It is a function of how much time you put into it and your skill at intensive pasture rotation. Fire Sweep Simmental in Missouri pastures 30 mature cows with calves on a total of 40 acres. The acres dedicated to pasture is probably 25 acres. They strip graze. And they have been doing it for several years. How do I know? I manage it for them for a week every year.
Plus, their soil and climate does not equal Fleming County.

 

[CattleMan1920]

I can run about 10 on 116 acres. That's if it's pretty fair land.
My experience with cows that size is they don't do well on Rocky ground.

This is why we have such diversity in our cattle - or SHOULD have.
IMO - BH's cattle are obese. I would scold anyone I was advising if they got their cattle in that condition. But, if they work for him and don't have breeding problems or calving problems, not for us to scold. He has been doing this long enough to know what works for him.
For others reading this, I would warn, DO NOT let your heifers get this obese prior to breeding. Once a milk cell fills with fat, it will NEVER produce milk. So, a chubby little weaned heifer - or - fat yearling ready for breeding should NOT be your goal. Most on here knows I am into showing my cattle, which show cattle have to have a little layer. LITTLE layer is key, you do not want her with a fat udder. Yes, I see lots of them. Doesn't make it right for them later on in life as a cow.

We don't use creep feeders on our operation, and as far as fertility, most of the herd, above 85% breed back 1st try without any issues. We have 22 AI'd right now over the past 45 days confirmed with BioPRYN, and we used absolutely no hormones to make it happen. We have still have more to breed once the weather clears up some so we can move them closer to the barn.

I'm not going to do this, but if I cut them completely off grain, and fed hay every other day, they would still be big. I'm not sure if you seed ladino or red clover, but when they hit that in the spring and summer they pack on the pounds, should I tell them to stop eating? Even our feed that we supplement has oats as the main ingredient, not corn. It's 14% protein. Our cattle get prebiotics and probiotics, the "bugs" in their gut process what they eat far better with those supplements than how the average cow functions who doesn't have those supplements.

The cow you called obese is 13 years old, has had a calf almost every year since she was about 15 months old. We've never pulled a calf on her, she's walks fine. Never had health issues with her. We will soon be breeding her back SAV Elation in a few weeks. She is nursing a hoss of a bull calf right now from SAV International 2020. She is I50k DNA tested, top 4% of Angus breed for dry matter intake, and top 5% of breed for $EN. She is a highly efficient momma. Unless I put her in a field with almost no forage and neglected her, I seriously doubt she will "trim up". She's looked like the photo above for a long time with no issues.

I've taken plenty of University classes and read a lot of books about breeding and forages, but nothing beats hands on experience. I've heard a LOT of bad advice over the years that I'm glad I steered clear of. One of the real stinkers "You should drastically cut feed to cows and heifers close to calving" knock yourself out folks, we feed them all the way until that 85-100 pound healthy calf drops out the back. Our heifers aren't exactly small and they settle just fine, we AI them at about 15 months with no use of lutalyse or synch.

If we were having calving issues or problems settling the whole herd then I would have to reevaluate things, but that is simply not the case.

I know this will ruffle feathers on this forum, but everyone told us, you need to breed to Connealy Comrade or other high CED bulls, we went the opposite direction and used SAV instead. Everyone said "SAV won't work in KY" Well that was terrible advice, and from people who consider themselves top cattlemen. I respect their right to their opinions, but don't follow them. I feel confident that within 5-8 years from now that we can push the average cow size in our herd from 1750-1900 to 2000-2200 with no compromises in efficiency or fertility. If I am wrong, I put it in words here and I can eat them later.

 

[CattleMan1920]

Go next door to me, an Amish gentleman has over 60 daughters and granddaughters that we culled and sold to a farmer who had the operation before him (he passed away, and it was bought by the Amish gentleman). He ran a total of around 130-145 head at any given time on around 116 acres. Everyone around here knew him. His herd was never given grain, the hay was marginal, and they were crowded. The cows were on average 1500-1700 pounds. Again, he ran them as lean as he could, not how I would have done it. Even so, the cows were big and threw off big, healthy calves. Before he passed he used a Tenx son and a EXAR Denver son, as well as a Boyd bull on them, and he had some very nice fancy black steers, that brought top dollar. If you were nearby, I could show you those cows and daughters to back up what I'm saying. He owned several generations of them, and they performed, in what was definitely a commercial operation.

I have some friends in the Fleming and Lewis County areas, in my observation the land is at least fairly comparable in terms of forage types and average stocking rates to here in Clark County. One of them lived close by a situation of heavy stocking on small acreage. He said the land was eaten into the ground, and the cattle were constantly getting out.
On our farm we are overstocked by most people's standards. Averaging around 80 to 90 head at any given time. 50 or 60 of those are usually calves weaned or yearlings. I supplement the cows almost every day in the winter with around 3 lbs of grain, to supplement our low quality hay. The calves and yearlings get roughly 5 to 6 lbs of grain per day in addition to the same hay. I also will feed the cows similar amounts less often during the summer to keep them coming up and easily handled. Our cows are likely average weights of 1400+, they stay in relatively good shape and if they were in comparable condition to those I turned the would weigh quite a bit more. If I did not supplement the pastures would be eaten into oblivion,
I am not questioning the integrity of the poster, but with the said stocking rate per acre and no supplementation on the neighbors farm, there has to be more to this story that is not known. Under usual circumstances I would think that the pastures would soon be eaten into the ground and fences would not hold the cattle for long.

It can be done. It is a function of how much time you put into it and your skill at intensive pasture rotation. Fire Sweep Simmental in Missouri pastures 30 mature cows with calves on a total of 40 acres. The acres dedicated to pasture is probably 25 acres. They strip graze. And they been doing it for several years. How do I know? I manage it for them for week every year.

We are in a valley with lots of springs, unless it's a full blown drought, our cattle can't even begin to eat down all the grass and clover when it's going full blast. We have some fields that we bale red clover and it's a blanket of purple, very hard to dry down even with a hay conditioner, we bale that, and that's what they eat in the winter, along with wrapped alfalfa/orchard grass haylage that we buy from Mark Thomas, he produces hay for the Thoroughbred horse industry, tests everything, and has been awarded with best hay in Kentucky for years.

We mow our pastures down a least a couple times a year lest it gets out of control, and that is with cattle grazing the fields.

 

[Bright Raven]

I have some friends in the Fleming and Lewis County areas, in my observation the land is at least fairly comparable in terms of forage types and average stocking rates to here in Clark County. One of them lived close by a situation of heavy stocking on small acreage. He said the land was eaten into the ground, and the cattle were constantly getting out.
On our farm we are overstocked by most people's standards. Averaging around 80 to 90 head at any given time. 50 or 60 of those are usually calves weaned or yearlings. I supplement the cows almost every day in the winter with around 3 lbs of grain, to supplement our low quality hay. The calves and yearlings get roughly 5 to 6 lbs of grain per day in addition to the same hay. I also will feed the cows similar amounts less often during the summer to keep them coming up and easily handled. Our cows are likely average weights of 1400+, they stay in relatively good shape and if they were in comparable condition to those I turned the would weigh quite a bit more. If I did not supplement the pastures would be eaten into oblivion,
I am not questioning the integrity of the poster, but with the said stocking rate per acre and no supplementation on the neighbors farm, there has to be more to this story that is not known. Under usual circumstances I would think that the pastures would soon be eaten into the ground and fences would not hold the cattle for long.

It can be done. It is a function of how much time you put into it and your skill at intensive pasture rotation. Fire Sweep Simmental in Missouri pastures 30 mature cows with calves on a total of 40 acres. The acres dedicated to pasture is probably 25 acres. They strip graze. And they been doing it for several years. How do I know? I manage it for them for week every year.

We are in a valley with lots of springs, unless it's a full blown drought, our cattle can't even begin to eat down all the grass and clover when it's going full blast. We have some fields that we bale red clover and it's a blanket of purple, very hard to dry down even with a hay conditioner, we bale that, and that's what they eat in the winter, along with wrapped alfalfa/orchard grass haylage that we buy from Mark Thomas, he produces hay for the Thoroughbred horse industry, tests everything, and has been awarded with best hay in Kentucky for years.

We mow our pastures down a least a couple times a year lest it gets out of control, and that is with cattle grazing the fields.

You know how rough it is over in my county but the soil grows good forage. I am near Blue Licks, the soil does not have much rock - some parts of Robertson is much rockier. I mow 3 times a year to keep up with growth. I run 20 mature cows on about 60 acres of pasture. Yes, I am understocked and my cows show it.

 

[HDRider]

I agree well played Branded.. welcome to CT. Couple things. You were asked to show the numbers on how a 14000 bull benefits a commercial rancher. You dodged with the f450 comment. So your thick skinned but full of shyt. Until you show the numbers anyway. Maybe some undoctered photos of your cattle and your place to. Put your money where your mouth is,so to say. I'll wager at commercial sale my margins will beat yours. I've got 3 bulls right now.
1750 was the highest priced one. I post some pictures if you wish. Although I already have. Calves to we can compare. Only thing you gotta go outside and take em with your phone. I'll do the same. I just left one herd took some.fixing to go check another. I'll check back in.

As beef becomes labeled to certain bloodlines let me tell you what is gonna well just look at the chicken. Beef will be bought on contract directly from the producer. Who must by their genetics from the same people buying their beef.
The micro producer with 40 cows WILL BE GONE... there's always Craigslist I guess.

Only one way to offend me. And that's to think that you did. Lol...we're gonna blame Ron for that one...I Know him and I know he pmd you back and forth. Cause that's what he does. I've got something coming for him. lol................

Intriguing statement Fence. A major factor that has prevented the mass corporatization of beef production is the large quantity of land needed to produce cattle; essentially insulating or protecting the STO from being overwhelmed by corporatization. How and how soon do you see the STO becoming extinct and how will corporations go about implementing this.

Side note: I am using corporatization as a broad spectrum, inclusive term to describe what has already occurred in pork and poultry industries, and what I presume you are describing in the statement in bold highlights.

Definitely not Fenceman, but I think the beef industry will mirror the chicken and dairy industry. We'll be working for them raising what they want our our land for little to nothing. We're sorta already doing that. The only way I can see to survive and do it your way, is to be able to sell directly to the public off the farm. But the higher powers don't want a person to be able to make a good living off 50 cows.

With all due respect, "Sort of"?

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Whoa, whoa - James. I was not being negative. Please re-read. Your cow pictured and some others are obese. I don't think even you can deny that.
But - that is working for you and your environment. You have an abundance of forage.
After I made the comment that your program was working good for you, I did want to point out to any "newbies" reading our posts, that we as breeders need to be careful with our HEIFERS (not cows) for milk production. (a different topic)
We all get bantering back and forth and sometimes forget we are not the only ones reading these posts.
I was not being disrespectful to your program. Heck, Ron is a friend and I have told him his cows were obese!!! LOL He also knows it!

 

[CattleMan1920]

Whoa, whoa - James. I was not being negative. Please re-read. Your cow pictured and some others are obese. I don't think even you can deny that.
But - that is working for you and your environment. You have an abundance of forage.
After I made the comment that your program was working good for you, I did want to point out to any "newbies" reading our posts, that we as breeders need to be careful with our HEIFERS (not cows) for milk production. (a different topic)
We all get bantering back and forth and sometimes forget we are not the only ones reading these posts.
I was not being disrespectful to your program. Heck, Ron is a friend and I have told him his cows were obese!!! LOL He also knows it!

.

No offense taken Jeanne, I appreciate your input, but I assure you that if she was pulled off all feed for a year, and had to live solely on grass, even in the winter, she would still be 1700-1800 pounds. She was 9 months pregnant in that photo as well with a 90 pound bull calf.

 

[Bright Raven]

Whoa, whoa - James. I was not being negative. Please re-read. Your cow pictured and some others are obese. I don't think even you can deny that.
But - that is working for you and your environment. You have an abundance of forage.
After I made the comment that your program was working good for you, I did want to point out to any "newbies" reading our posts, that we as breeders need to be careful with our HEIFERS (not cows) for milk production. (a different topic)
We all get bantering back and forth and sometimes forget we are not the only ones reading these posts.
I was not being disrespectful to your program. Heck, Ron is a friend and I have told him his cows were obese!!! LOL He also knows it!

Yes you have. I am just glad the cows have not heard you say that.

 

[sim.-ang.king]

Someone needs to tell them, because you sure ain't.
:lol2:

 

[True Grit Farms]

Whoa, whoa - James. I was not being negative. Please re-read. Your cow pictured and some others are obese. I don't think even you can deny that.
But - that is working for you and your environment. You have an abundance of forage.
After I made the comment that your program was working good for you, I did want to point out to any "newbies" reading our posts, that we as breeders need to be careful with our HEIFERS (not cows) for milk production. (a different topic)
We all get bantering back and forth and sometimes forget we are not the only ones reading these posts.
I was not being disrespectful to your program. Heck, Ron is a friend and I have told him his cows were obese!!! LOL He also knows it!

.

No offense taken Jeanne, I appreciate your input, but I assure you that if she was pulled off all feed for a year, and had to live solely on grass, even in the winter, she would still be 1700-1800 pounds. She was 9 months pregnant in that photo as well with a 90 pound bull calf.

Your idea of grass and mine differ greatly. Same goes when it comes to feeding cattle. I'm feeding mine 3lbs of corn - wcs mix every other day hoping that they won't die and make it to spring grass.

 

[CattleMan1920]

Whoa, whoa - James. I was not being negative. Please re-read. Your cow pictured and some others are obese. I don't think even you can deny that.
But - that is working for you and your environment. You have an abundance of forage.
After I made the comment that your program was working good for you, I did want to point out to any "newbies" reading our posts, that we as breeders need to be careful with our HEIFERS (not cows) for milk production. (a different topic)
We all get bantering back and forth and sometimes forget we are not the only ones reading these posts.
I was not being disrespectful to your program. Heck, Ron is a friend and I have told him his cows were obese!!! LOL He also knows it!

.

No offense taken Jeanne, I appreciate your input, but I assure you that if she was pulled off all feed for a year, and had to live solely on grass, even in the winter, she would still be 1700-1800 pounds. She was 9 months pregnant in that photo as well with a 90 pound bull calf.

Your idea of grass and mine differ greatly. Same goes when it comes to feeding cattle. I'm feeding mine 3lbs of corn - wcs mix every other day hoping that they won't die and make it to spring grass.

Hoping they won't die? You are joking right?

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

James, I was not referring to her size, her brisket is like a basketball!! I also have some big mommas.
This is Trinity 3T, daughter of an old donor. Weighed 1985# (12 years old) BCS maybe 7

This is Yippee 60Y, daughter of another donor of mine. Weighed 1850# (8 Years old) BCS maybe 6.5

I do NOT go out of my way to let very many know the size of my girls, because it just brings on criticism. My herd average is about 1550#. I generally leave it at that.

 

[True Grit Farms]

.

No offense taken Jeanne, I appreciate your input, but I assure you that if she was pulled off all feed for a year, and had to live solely on grass, even in the winter, she would still be 1700-1800 pounds. She was 9 months pregnant in that photo as well with a 90 pound bull calf.

Your idea of grass and mine differ greatly. Same goes when it comes to feeding cattle. I'm feeding mine 3lbs of corn - wcs mix every other day hoping that they won't die and make it to spring grass.

Hoping they won't die? You are joking right?

Not joking at all, a lot of cattle have starved to death already this year. Our hay stinks and some folks just don't or can't afford to buy feed for their cattle. We have 3 older calves that aren't looking so good, and one is from a good proven cow. I'm fighting and feeding my way through this mess but it won't surprise me if we lose a couple of animals before spring.