Would you recommend cattle?

[herofan]

I'm sure this question has been asked before in one form or another, but here is another approach. I know a lot of school teachers and people in various educational jobs. Although they have made their living in education, a lot of them stun me by saying they would not recommend anyone going into education. I've heard several people say they certainly wouldn't want their children going into education. The idea is that it's too much for too little pay, to many demands by the government, recently become dangerous, and the list goes on. As an occupation, it's just not what it's cracked up to be and it will drive one insane, and not the fun career that it once was.

That got me to wondering. For those of you who have been into cattle for years, what would be your first impression be upon hearing someone wanted to get into the cattle business, either for a living or hobby. Would you smile and recommend it? Good idea, or they don't know what they're getting into? Is the work load vs profit worth it? Do you ever say, "if i had it to do over, I would have had another career." If one is planning on hobby farming, would they be better off just spending that time on the couch?

 

[Anonymous]

At least if a cow shyts on you it's it some worth to the land.
Someone's else's kid shyts on you as a teacher you get docked in your pay. Plus you get shot at, yelled at by idiot parents who think their kid is a genius,get to buy supplies out of your pocket etc. and as a bonus you get to go home only to work on grading that same shyyty kids work.

 

[Anonymous]

Plus you can't eat the kid if he makes you mad enough

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

Plus you can't eat the kid if he makes you mad enough

Well ya shouldn't anyway.

 

[denvermartinfarms]

Yes I would recommend cattle and farming. Cow calf operations have the least risk, and make money. And buying calves to feed out like I do has a lot of risk, I borrow a lot of money and rely on the cattle market to remain somewhat steady. That's why I have both, and I wouldn't change a thing.

 

[TN Cattle Man]

Very good question... I like your analogy regarding eduacation. Like education, I don't think that you go into (or stay in) farming solely for the money... you do it because it is what you love to do!! Personally, there isn't any other job that I would rather be doing than farming. Yes it is a lot of hard work and a lot of thankless hours... but I wouldn't trade it for the world.

I would encourage anyone who had the love for it to give it a try. Lord knows we are loosing the family farms in this country and with it, a lifestyle and integrity that we all know and love.

Brian

 

[denvermartinfarms]

I agree this is a good question, I will find the answers interesting also.

 

[jasonleonard]

For me, cattle have been a great asset builder(as a side business). My desire to run cattle led to the purchase of a few hundred acres that our family normally wouldn't have touched, as we are really samillers\loggers and only buy wooded ground.
I look at friends from my school years (i'm 43), and look at where their hobbies have taken them. Some have his-and hers Harleys,fishing boats,preferred customer cards to casinos, have golfed in 19 states and 4 countries, and some get nosebleeds daily from too much cocaine!
When I am no longer able to look after my cattle( hopefully 50 years from now!), my daughters will need a good real-estate agent to sell my land, a few pots to ship all the cattle ,and still have to have an auction to sell my equipment.
So I will never discourage a young man or woman from playing with some cattle, especially if I see ambition in them.

 

[E in PA]

Beef yes, dairy absolutely not. You would still need another source of income I believe either way.

 

[denvermartinfarms]

Another thing I see in people my age some in my own family, is either trying to break there parents or ending up with 100 to 200k in loans to go to shcool for 4 to 8 years so they can then maybe get a job making as little as even 60k a year sometimes a lot more but it ain't a garuntee. I'm the only one out of all my cousins on Both sides of my family that did not go to college, and instead of going to school until my mid 20s and spending money I didn't have to do it, i don't mean to sound arrogant but at 21 I would never have to work another day in my life of the farm if I didn't want to and I make more money than I need to live good, I know not everyone can or would want to be a farmer, but I have been happy with the road I have taken.

 

[Tim/South]

I retired as a teacher/coach. I steered both of my children away from education careers. I was also raised on a farm and both of my children understand the life. Both have good jobs and are good with money.
My son has cows that run with mine. As long as he helps I will never charge him a dime. He kicks in some coins after he sells his calves, but how much is his call. He and I have 80 momma cows total. We roll our own hay, sell some on the side.
Education was good to me. It was just time to get out.

 

[Dega Moo]

I think getting an Agriculture degree, either in agronomy or large animal science is a very solid bet for future employment on or off the farm. Owning or operating a cattle operation might be a whole nother story. Most of the people I listen to think the future will see either hobby beef farms (say 40 or fewer head) surviving since ownership generally has an outside income and doesn't figure labor into their profit and loss sheet and large operations of say over 500 head making profit and surviving while the medium sized operations for the most part fail and virtually disappear in the United States.

I'm not belittling hobby operations but if someone likes beef cattle and want to raise them as a hobby and maybe supplement their income then a recommendation is kind of meaningless. By all means if it's a lifestyle choice then that's more than cool. Go for it! But if you're talking about making a living .......

Bez or CB like to throw out something like an average $500 a year cost to feed and care for a cow. Personally, I think that's a bit low but using that number anyway, if I sell an 800 pound steer at say $140 cwt then I receive $1120 for every calving cow. If I raised my own cows from new born calves then I've likely spent $1000 raising the heifer without any income. If we "depreciate" this girl over 5 years, she costs me another $200 a year for those 5 years at that $1000 value.

In small herds we can get 100% fertility and birth rates, but if we have 100, 300 or 800 cows, that's just not going to happen. A stretch KPI for preg, calving, weaning and live sale would be 90% per year. I think it would be a big stretch in fact. So instead of getting $1120 per cow we can figure on getting $1008 per cow on average and after we deduct our $500 and $200 expenses we're looking at a possible profit of $308 per cow. In order to make $60000 a year (in a very optimistic scenario) this farm would need 200 head of cows and if they could pasture a pair on 2 acres of grass they'd need 400 acres of great forage. I suspect with current land prices, that kind of land is going to sell today for no less than $5000 an acre so the investment in land alone would be $2,000,000. Toss in some equipment and trucks, supplies, vet and med bills and oh yeah, don't forget social security taxes on that income. Almost forgot, UofMisery ( :lol2: ) expects bred heifers to sell for something like 1.8 to 2.0 times the value of a 550# steer and they recently figured that steer at $140 cwt giving a cost of something like $1540 (off something like $600 the last few years). So we could say, no bull ;-) , those 200 cows were another $300,000 investment.

I really hate being so negative, such a downer, but I just don't see it. I think the future is large corporate cattle operations, hobby cattle ops and maybe some niche market players. I'd love to be convinced otherwise.

 

[Kingfisher]

What ever you do....make sure you get the math......

 

[Dega Moo]

Sorry Kingfisher about all the numbers. I get carried away on occasion and in this mornings light realize I've done so again.

I do worry the investment required to put together a profitable operation will become impossible for most.

 

[dun]

In the long run, if you chase after women and you're wife finds out, cows are a lot cheaper hobby

 

[J&D Cattle]

In the long run, if you chase after women and you're wife finds out, cows are a lot cheaper hobby

I married into a family full of attorneys so I wouldn't stand a chance. :lol2:

 

[dun]

In the long run, if you chase after women and you're wife finds out, cows are a lot cheaper hobby

I married into a family full of attorneys so I wouldn't stand a chance. :lol2:

None of us would, attorny family or not

 

[Caustic Burno]

I'm sure this question has been asked before in one form or another, but here is another approach. I know a lot of school teachers and people in various educational jobs. Although they have made their living in education, a lot of them stun me by saying they would not recommend anyone going into education. I've heard several people say they certainly wouldn't want their children going into education. The idea is that it's too much for too little pay, to many demands by the government, recently become dangerous, and the list goes on. As an occupation, it's just not what it's cracked up to be and it will drive one insane, and not the fun career that it once was.

That got me to wondering. For those of you who have been into cattle for years, what would be your first impression be upon hearing someone wanted to get into the cattle business, either for a living or hobby. Would you smile and recommend it? Good idea, or they don't know what they're getting into? Is the work load vs profit worth it? Do you ever say, "if i had it to do over, I would have had another career." If one is planning on hobby farming, would they be better off just spending that time on the couch?

It is a calling or a sickness owning cattle, you for dang sure make a better return on your money in stock run on Wall street. Wife taught Behavioral management kid's it dam sure wasn't for the money. Daughter is a 5th grade teacher as well. I have no clue why she does it as her husband makes big money. Guess it is in the DNA one Grandpa was a school teacher and ran about 100 head. When I thought about selling out the wife said they were half her's. She said I would die if there wasn't a bovine on the place to keep my blood pressure up.

 

[djinwa]

Its pretty safe to say most people don't like what they're doing. Its just too hard to quit.

I just have a few cows, and ponder frequently the foolishness. Then I wonder what I'd do with the grass if no cows. Would have to mow it. Then I'd have to spend more time maintaining mowers and buying gas.

Then I figure I could move to town where there is less grass, but we'd have to get rid of a lot of junk, and in town I'd have to deal with neighbors.

So, I guess I'll just keep the cows.

 

[Bigfoot]

I would tell them sure go for it, if you want to. Who am I to dash someone's dreams. I would hope that they realize that it is next to impossible (at least where I live) to just jump into any farming operation. I got started as a small child. Bought land when I was young. Built my assets. I don't see how anybody could just up and start a cattle operation, especially one big enough to sustain a decent income.
My son is 8. I guess I spoil him. He has recently started backgrounding a few head. He uses his own money to buy them. They eat my grass. He wants to raise cattle, and shoe horses when he grows up. I figure he'll go on an get an education. If he doesn't I doubt he'll starve with his plan.