Would you recommend cattle?

[greybeard]

In the long run, if you chase after women and you're wife finds out, cows are a lot cheaper hobby

I married into a family full of attorneys so I wouldn't stand a chance. :lol2:

None of us would, attorny family or not

They say Love is grand--but divorce is 100 grand.

 

[Chris H]

At least if a cow shyts on you it's it some worth to the land.
Someone's else's kid shyts on you as a teacher you get docked in your pay. Plus you get shot at, yelled at by idiot parents who think their kid is a genius,get to buy supplies out of your pocket etc. and as a bonus you get to go home only to work on grading that same shyyty kids work.

My daytime job in is IT for a large company. I've always said if a cow shyts on you, it washes off. If a person shyts on you, the stench follows you a long time.

We sold some breeding stock to a couple different guys getting started raising cattle last year. We didn't discourage them but we made sure they knew what they were getting themselves into.

 

[lovehammer]

Well, I've lurked here for a few years, and this post is the one that made me register.

Almost anything in life worth doing requires some commitment and effort. Marriage, education, friendship, spiritual growth, a career or business, they all require constant work. Is it "easy" to make money in cattle? Nope. Is it for everybody? Nope. Also, folks can become disillusioned in any career. You don't want to put to much stock into what a few folks say. People that really want something always find a way to make it happen. If owning\working cattle is something YOU enjoy doing, then it's a worthwhile endeavor.

Honestly, most small cattle operations are tax write offs and most of these small operations don't operate like a true business. Folks that buy $25k tractors, $10k trailers, and $50k trucks to run 10-15 head aren't doing the math properly if they want to make a profit. The tax factor is a huge reason for my decision to keep cattle.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Well, I've lurked here for a few years, and this post is the one that made me register.

Almost anything in life worth doing requires some commitment and effort. Marriage, education, friendship, spiritual growth, a career or business, they all require constant work. Is it "easy" to make money in cattle? Nope. Is it for everybody? Nope. Also, folks can become disillusioned in any career. You don't want to put to much stock into what a few folks say. People that really want something always find a way to make it happen. If owning\working cattle is something YOU enjoy doing, then it's a worthwhile endeavor.

Honestly, most small cattle operations are tax write offs and most of these small operations don't operate like a true business. Folks that buy $25k tractors, $10k trailers, and $50k trucks to run 10-15 head aren't doing the math properly if they want to make a profit. The tax factor is a huge reason for my decision to keep cattle.

The tax factor is a loser right out the gate, I have no clue where spending 25000 dollar's to save a few dollar's got traction you are winning. You are down 22000 buck's would have been better off paying the taxes. You save a few pennies on thousand's spent. Depening on your tax bracket if you are in a 15% bracket you saved 750 dollars by spending 5000 dollar's by depreciateing over five year's. You are 4250 dollar's in the hole 25% bracketyour still 3750 in the hole.

 

[highgrit]

I like cows and have been around them all my life. Can't see waiting around on the couch to die. Get up and check on the cows, check the fence voltage maybe even get a little target practice in. One thing about cows and farming is you can write most of your stuff off on your taxes. C.B. in GA. we have a Georgia Agriculture Tax Exemption, and all farm stuff you pay no sales tax on. I keep cows because I like them, and for tax reasons. :nod:

 

[lovehammer]

Well, I've lurked here for a few years, and this post is the one that made me register.

Almost anything in life worth doing requires some commitment and effort. Marriage, education, friendship, spiritual growth, a career or business, they all require constant work. Is it "easy" to make money in cattle? Nope. Is it for everybody? Nope. Also, folks can become disillusioned in any career. You don't want to put to much stock into what a few folks say. People that really want something always find a way to make it happen. If owning\working cattle is something YOU enjoy doing, then it's a worthwhile endeavor.

Honestly, most small cattle operations are tax write offs and most of these small operations don't operate like a true business. Folks that buy $25k tractors, $10k trailers, and $50k trucks to run 10-15 head aren't doing the math properly if they want to make a profit. The tax factor is a huge reason for my decision to keep cattle.

The tax factor is a loser right out the gate, I have no clue where spending 25000 dollar's to save a few dollar's got traction you are winning. You are down 22000 buck's would have been better off paying the taxes. You save a few pennies on thousand's spent. Depening on your tax bracket if you are in a 15% bracket you saved 750 dollars by spending 5000 dollar's by depreciateing over five year's. You are 4250 dollar's in the hole 25% bracketyour still 3750 in the hole.

I didn't deliver my point very well. I totally agree with what you are saying. What I meant is the guys that think they need the expensive setup are guaranteed to not make money if they factor in the cost of the equipment. Some folks think they need a Cadillac setup right from the start and they doom themselves to debt forever. These are the guys that usually say nobody can make any money in any ag endeavor. I'm really just talking about a few of my neighbors and some fellows I've seen at the sale barn. They seem to have more money than sense. I'm in the Ford 8n, older than dirt stock trailer, older pickup, and keep debt as low as possible crowd myself. I try to do all of my own fencing, equipment repairs, pen building and brush clearing, that kind of thing. The guys I'm referring to hire most everything done. It also could be the whole oil field thing in my neck of the woods in which case they very well may have more money than sense. In the end, it doesn't really matter that much to me, I've just done the math like you and it doesn't add up for purely profit driven business reasons.

That said, the tax savings on having my property ag exempt are pretty significant to me. It's also good to get back some of the tax money I paid in from my day job by claiming fence replacement, feed costs, etc., at the end of the year. I'm a (very) small time cattle guy that's really just getting my operation going so the tax deal is a major benefit for me.

 

[Caustic Burno]

I like cows and have been around them all my life. Can't see waiting around on the couch to die. Get up and check on the cows, check the fence voltage maybe even get a little target practice in. One thing about cows and farming is you can write most of your stuff off on your taxes. C.B. in GA. we have a Georgia Agriculture Tax Exemption, and all farm stuff you pay no sales tax on. I keep cows because I like them, and for tax reasons. :nod:

Keeping cow's cause you like them is fine and we have exemption in Texas as well.
You can not spend money and make it on cow's saving a few dollar's on taxes.
Now if you need a new tractor it is a great deal. If you buy a tractor thinking you are beating the IRS that is a joke.
That 25,000 dollar tractor that you buy saved you 3000 dollar's in taxes again a great deal if you need a tractor.
If you don't you bank account went down 22,000 thousand dollar's to save 3,000. That dog don't hunt.

 

[texast]

This hit's so close to home for me. I grew up with cattle in life up until I moved to texas. Then for about 5 years I didn't get a chance to be around cattle. At that point I made my mission to get land for my own cattle. Well I leased land got cattle lost lease sold cattle and so own.
My point is I can't imagine life without cattle. I don't have any now, but working on it. I just got advise from a very well known Red brahman breeder and she advised to take my time and know that I will need a job and go in as if it will be a hobby if it's what I want to do.
I WOULD SO GO FOR IT BUT EDUCATE YOURSELF FOR IT AND MAKE SURE IT'S WHAT YOU WANT TO DO!!

 

[herofan]

I like cows and have been around them all my life. Can't see waiting around on the couch to die. Get up and check on the cows, check the fence voltage maybe even get a little target practice in. One thing about cows and farming is you can write most of your stuff off on your taxes. C.B. in GA. we have a Georgia Agriculture Tax Exemption, and all farm stuff you pay no sales tax on. I keep cows because I like them, and for tax reasons. :nod:

Keeping cow's cause you like them is fine and we have exemption in Texas as well.
You can not spend money and make it on cow's saving a few dollar's on taxes.
Now if you need a new tractor it is a great deal. If you buy a tractor thinking you are beating the IRS that is a joke.
That 25,000 dollar tractor that you buy saved you 3000 dollar's in taxes again a great deal if you need a tractor.
If you don't you bank account went down 22,000 thousand dollar's to save 3,000. That dog don't hunt.

I agree 100%. We had an entire thread on taxes a while back. I've gotten to the point, I don't even put in my two cents when I'm around people talking about all they buy for a tax write-off. I've noticed it's one of those things you just can't change someone's mind on who already has it ingrained in their head. But, I'm sure they feel the same about me. They probably think, "why can't i convince this guy that if he bought such and such, he could write it off on his taxes and get ahead." I've never thought that buying something just for a tax write-off made any sense.

A lot of people will say they agree with this, but then they will buy a new tractor when their old one has several years left in it and say, "I might as well go ahead and buy it. I'll need it someday, and I get to write it off on my taxes."

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

You should never buy something just because you can take a tax deduction but by the same token if you truly need a piece of equipment you'd be foolish not taking the deduction.

 

[Ruark]

Well.... I was a teacher for 12 years earlier in my life. That is NOT something to go into if your heart isn't into it. That's why you see teachers sobbing from stress in the Teacher's Lounge, then putting on their "happy faces" and heading back into the classroom. That's why over half of all teachers leave the profession within 5 years. If you have any doubt at all about becoming a teacher, forget it. Trust me.

As others have said, starting from scratch raising cattle for a living is barely a viable reality, unless you just won the lottery. Some people do it the old way; they don't spend $700 per cow per year. They just basically give'em their shots, turn'em loose, round'em up a few months later, and haul them to the sale barn. Maybe put some hay out in the winter. But again, starting up is the boner. You want, say, 500 head, at 8 acres per head, that's 4,000 acres. You're looking at a 7-figure number buying a place like that, plus fencing, cattle, barns, handling equipment, etc. Can YOU round up and handle 500 head of 1,200-pound animals? Picture it.

I know of several people who have supplemental income raising cows. They'll have, say 200-300 acres, run a few dozen cows on it, maybe a bull or two with some mama cows, but keep everything simple. It's common to have a "side pasture" for growing some hay on, to put up for the winter months.

But to go out with your hands in your pockets and expect to start in the cattle business and get your first paycheck next month, it's not gonna happen. Heck, some ranchers spend their whole lives ranching and never have a year when they turn a profit at the bottom line.

There is something to be said about the tax business and I won't repeat the information that's been given here. It is good to have a good CPA that knows the farm and ranch business. If you set up a farm operation (register the ranch name, have a commercial checking account, maybe a web site, some management software, etc.), you can get a LOT of tax deductions, even if it's just a few acres with 5 cows. Register your truck as a "farm truck." Then all repairs, tires, gas, maintenance, etc. for that truck are tax deductible. Same for the tractor. Power tools, welders, pesticides, sprayers, feed, hay, hand tools, fences, gates, pond management, land clearing/hauling, storage, building materials, etc. are all tax deductible, as well as expenses related to operating the business itself: software, paper, computer/printer, etc. If you go to seminars or workshops, you can count mileage, food and hotel expenses, as well as the workshop fee. Then you have depreciation on all your capital assets. Things like the truck and tractor, all your fencing, storage buildings, ATVs, etc. all collect depreciation expense every year, and that is all tax deductible. But again, get a good farm and ranch CPA to handle this for you, and talk with them NOW - don't wait until a week before taxes are due.

 

[herofan]

But to go out with your hands in your pockets and expect to start in the cattle business and get your first paycheck next month, it's not gonna happen. Heck, some ranchers spend their whole lives ranching and never have a year when they turn a profit at the bottom line.

How does that work? I have heard other people speak of not actually making a profit. How does one continue year after year in that situation?

 

[denvermartinfarms]

But to go out with your hands in your pockets and expect to start in the cattle business and get your first paycheck next month, it's not gonna happen. Heck, some ranchers spend their whole lives ranching and never have a year when they turn a profit at the bottom line.

How does that work? I have heard other people speak of not actually making a profit. How does one continue year after year in that situation?

Because they either support there cattle with another income, or I believe with a good number of them that say that, they are not being 100% truthful. I have done for years what everyone says to do, have an account that all expenses come out of and only cattle and farm income goes into, and I have never lost a dime on cattle. I come closer to feeling like I win the lottery every year with them, at least for what the return on my investments is.

 

[herofan]

But to go out with your hands in your pockets and expect to start in the cattle business and get your first paycheck next month, it's not gonna happen. Heck, some ranchers spend their whole lives ranching and never have a year when they turn a profit at the bottom line.

How does that work? I have heard other people speak of not actually making a profit. How does one continue year after year in that situation?

Because they either support there cattle with another income, or I believe with a good number of them that say that, they are not being 100% truthful. I have done for years what everyone says to do, have an account that all expenses come out of and only cattle and farm income goes into, and I have never lost a dime on cattle. I come closer to feeling like I win the lottery every year with them, at least for what the return on my investments is.

I had thought the same thing, that people aren't 100% truthful. It seems like people say that with everything. A guy i know who makes cabinets always says, "I really don't make anything." Well, I haven't seen him in the bread line yet, and I wonder: if you don't make anything, then why do it.

 

[denvermartinfarms]

Yep, I got a friend that puts up about 3000 bales a year and sells about 2000, off of land he has free use of. And still says that he just barely makes anything. Ok then why do you have 10 tractors "he really does" and new equipment every 4 years.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Yep, I got a friend that puts up about 3000 bales a year and sells about 2000, off of land he has free use of. And still says that he just barely makes anything. Ok then why do you have 10 tractors "he really does" and new equipment every 4 years.

Lot of money changing hand's doesn't mean he is holding on to any.
And you have no clue who is toting the note as well.

If you look at just the sales of your cattle it look's great but after you put in your true input's not near as good.
My best friend is a dentist we grew up together and I made more a year than he did. His overhead was huge.
He took in a lot of money it also took a lot of money to run the place.

 

[js1234]

Cattle have been very good to my family and more or less our only business, since 1904. I wouldn't do anything else. I'm always happy to see other young guys come home or stay in their family operations. Also, glad to see new guys getting in. Tough business to get into if you don't have any experience or are under-funded, but a rewarding one. At least in my opinion.

 

[denvermartinfarms]

Yep, I got a friend that puts up about 3000 bales a year and sells about 2000, off of land he has free use of. And still says that he just barely makes anything. Ok then why do you have 10 tractors "he really does" and new equipment every 4 years.

Lot of money changing hand's doesn't mean he is holding on to any.
And you have no clue who is toting the note as well.

If you look at just the sales of your cattle it look's great but after you put in your true input's not near as good.
My best friend is a dentist we grew up together and I made more a year than he did. His overhead was huge.
He took in a lot of money it also took a lot of money to run the place.

What note? These people have free land and low cost, I know all about how it is never as good as one would think, but this guy acts like he is really losing money and he is not. On my cattle I do figure the inputs, my operation is big enough and I rely on the income from it enough that I know exactly what I make and what I spend.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Unless you are living under that roof balanceing his checkbook you don't have a clue to what is going on.
You just think you do. Lot's of secret's behind closed door's. Just cause a man has 5 tractor's and 200 cow's doesn't mean he has a dime he had credit. Seen fellow right down the road end up getting everything repoed and losing 200 acres of paid off land he had put up. John Deere dealership brought in eighteen wheeler's to load all the stuff. The old boy must have been a good juggler as he kept them off and fooled a lot of people for year's. Today he couldn't buy a settin of egg's in town on credit.

 

[denvermartinfarms]

Unless you are living under that roof balanceing his checkbook you don't have a clue to what is going on.
You just think you do. Lot's of secret's behind closed door's. Just cause a man has 5 tractor's and 200 cow's doesn't mean he has a dime he had credit. Seen fellow right down the road end up getting everything repoed and losing 200 acres of paid off land he had put up. John Deere dealership brought in eighteen wheeler's to load all the stuff. The old boy must have been a good juggler as he kept them off and fooled a lot of people for year's. Today he couldn't buy a settin of egg's in town on credit.

I agree that that can sure be the way it is, but you would really have to know the situation on this family.