Would like some advice to give advice to son

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Do you think he should accept the offer?

  • No

    Votes: 12 46.2%
  • Yes

    Votes: 11 42.3%
  • Yes but with another branch of service

    Votes: 3 11.5%

  • Total voters
    26

Jogeephus

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#2 is about to graduate and will be attending med school this fall. After he left the seminar on the virtues and political correctness of male emasculation he was approached by the US Army and they made him an offer to pick up all his tuition for med school. They also offered to give him a sizeable signup bonus, cover all his costs for room and board and pay him a decent monthly salary while he is in school. After his second year of med school he will be required to go through a 45 day training course and will then become a first lieutenant but at graduation he will be promoted to captain. In return, he will have to serve one year for each year of med school but all these years will count toward his retirement. On the present course, this will mean he will spend the next 8 years in college and then serve another 8 in the service with at least one year overseas.

#2 wants to become a surgeon with hopes of going into cancer research which he has been associated with for the last two years and even has his name on a few things - in very small print. Not meaning to brag, but he is brilliant and even had something published before he hit his teens. He also has a good logical head on his shoulders with lots of common sense and he knows how to work and budget his time. He is also a very caring and good natured young man who is not going into this for money but to make a difference. He has a 4.0 average with duel science degrees in genetics and microbiology while also being a starting player on his college's soccer team where he received a full scholarship. He was also accepted in med school within three days at the first college he interviewed. So I think it is safe to say he is a good catch for any institution.

I know he has been concerned over how he is going to pay for all this stuff because I don't coddle my children nor have I shared with him the fact that I created a college savings account for him when he was born. I've put money in this account religiously even when it was hard for me to do so. But I always felt investing in my children was a good bet. But at my fault, he was unaware of the safety net I had under him so I can understand his concerns when he sees a possible mountain of debt on the horizon and how this offer might look very attractive to him since it will offer a quick fix to his financial concerns.

He called the other day with this news and wants my opinion. I told him I had to think about it before I gave an answer but I did tell him not to do anything till I got back to him and then I fessed up about the safety net. I think he was shocked, impressed and relieved with this news. Under any other circumstances I would not have done this for I think its important for young birds to not see the net. They just seem to fly better IMO. But the last thing I want is for him to do make a decision out of perceived necessity or fear when he has other options.

Now that I've bared my soul with my personal business, I'd like to ask some opinions on this so I can smoke it over good before we talk again. I really have mixed feelings about this offer. On one hand, it would be great because the savings account will remain untouched but I don't want my own personal "greed" to sway my advice toward something that might be good for me and not for him. I've already made the sacrifices that were necessary for this so investing in him is pretty well a done deal and I consider the money spent. But then again, not having to spend it would be great because I know how hard it was to put this money aside especially during those times when I couldn't heat the house and could hardly pay the light bill.

On the other hand, you just can't beat a government job and he will be able to retire when he is 41 with a great pension, health insurance and other benefits. He would also be young enough to pursue his research interests, open his own practice or do just about anything he wanted and have the money to do it. Also, there is no telling what other doors a government job could open.

But then again, he shares my opinion of the government and that government can sap your creativeness and initiative so this might just kill his spirit and he will not be allowed to grow into the great doctor he is capable of becoming. I don't know. But on the other hand, 8 years of service is a small price to pay when you consider it's taken me a lifetime to build this savings for him and I'll still need to add more before it is over with and then there is #3 – "the bug" who is in the top of her class and will be attending college shortly.

It is really a hard call. I just want as much information and thoughts to give him so he can make the right decision for HIMSELF and not something that is convenient for ME. What do you think?

Sorry for the long post but I wanted to give as much information as possible so as to get the best input from you people.
Oh, BTW, he didn't make many friends at his the recent emasculation seminar but he did get some respect and a few nods from a few of the professors and attendees. One professor said you can't argue with idiots. Of course one person stood up and yelled at him and said that maybe with his masculinity he should be able to go to Chicago and keep them from closing a few high schools that are slated to be closed and merged with other schools. How this had anything to do with anything neither of us could figure but it was evident that this person felt strongly about the issue.
 
It won't take my vote. That ought to tell you something LOL

Let him decide. Support his decision. I'd vote yes if I could vote.
 
Where would his talents be appreciated more and put to better use? Private sector or military, and which would open more doors for him long term towards what his aspirations are?
I don't see the military doing much cancer research and putting microbiology to use beyond weaponization and germ warfare. My .02
 
I had to go with a "no". Someone that brilliant and talented needs to be free from all the politics of military life so that they can focus on their talent.
I don't want to sound like I'm bashing the military as there are certainly many brilliant soldiers whose aptitude is focused on war but I feel strongly that it would stifle someone of your son's caliber whose aptitude is focused elsewhere.
I also see that with as much money gets raised for cancer research every year, student loans will be a non-issue shortly after graduation if he's good and knows how to manage money.
 
Jo i have not voted yet. But would vote no on the offer. Think he will get where he wants to go faster with out goverment interfernce. The door openers in the military are fairly political now days.
 
I voted yes. Sounds like a sweet deal and if everything goes right, not only will he be debt free in the end, he'll have some tremendous job experience if he wants to get a career as a surgeon in a big practice. I would avoid setting up my own practice. Why would you want all the hassle, paperwork and liability associated with it? It's nothing if a cow keels over, but if a human does on the operating table, I wouldn't want to be the head guy taking all the heat.
 
Jo, I haven't voted yet, either, because I don't have a strong opinion yet. However, I felt the need to inject a somewhat dissenting opinion from the prevailing ones thus far and some thoughts I haven't seen expressed yet.

- while it's true that some of the best opportunities in the military are somewhat political, don't anyone think for one second that it's not the same way in the private sector. A big chunk of the medical research dollars are still gov't controlled and it's still a very political environment just in a MUCH more PC (and nefarious) way.

-Military service isn't exactly the same as the vast civilian gov't mess. We need a standing military with the best of everything out there. I would view his time in the Military as a service to his country. A pretty noble sacrifice. Oh, and of course Fort Detrick/USAMRIID does some pretty important stuff, too.

I guess the best advice that I come up with so far is to research the options some more. Medical research is an amazing field with so many different opportunities, I think before a decision could be made, I would want to know more details about all of the options. If the Army wants him, it likely many others will too.
 
Do you really think this country will have the money in 20 years to pay his retirement?? I see some real lean times coming in the USA. And government jobs, and pensions need to take a big hit before we can get out of the red. I feel we will be in another civil war within 20 years. I don't see how we can afford another generation of people on welfare and government subsidies. And I hope and pray every night that I am just a fool, and everything will be alright. Good Luck
 
CottageFarm":dowtgrf0 said:
- while it's true that some of the best opportunities in the military are somewhat political, don't anyone think for one second that it's not the same way in the private sector. A big chunk of the medical research dollars are still gov't controlled and it's still a very political environment just in a MUCH more PC (and nefarious) way.

-Military service isn't exactly the same as the vast civilian gov't mess. We need a standing military with the best of everything out there. I would view his time in the Military as a service to his country. A pretty noble sacrifice. Oh, and of course Fort Detrick/USAMRIID does some pretty important stuff, too.

I guess the best advice that I come up with so far is to research the options some more. Medical research is an amazing field with so many different opportunities, I think before a decision could be made, I would want to know more details about all of the options. If the Army wants him, it likely many others will too.

What she said. :nod: :nod: :nod:

Katherine
 
Just make sure the military puts everything in writing so they don't change their mind halfway through the deal.
 
Thanks for the replies and keep them coming. I want to come up with a list of ideas and thoughts so I can lay them out for him to smoke over before he makes a decision. Your giving some great food for thought on both sides of the coin.
 
Ok, look at it this way. He has 8-12 years in med school, residency, specialties, discounting any advance training. What he pays back is Med School and Specialty. Other as I understand is considered enhancement of his expertise, and is treated as such my military. We are committed to take care of our "protectors", (though VA is definitely lacking), those with access to active military hospitals, have access to some of the best and hungriest MD's available, as lots of these guys wanted to be Doctors and chose this route because Mom & Dad could not or would not spend the $200,000.00+ to get them ready for practice. There is nothing wrong with training our young in Medicine to take care of our Veteran of WWII, Korea, Vietnam, Desert Storm, etc., then let them choose if they want 20-30 years of that, or go on to private practice. If they stay, we have a good deal, if they choose to leave, we've had good service for 20-30 years, and they can make their niche in the private sector. Sure I will get racked for some part of this, but I'm old and cantankerous, so I can take it
W. Lamar Parmer
 
I would reiterate the part about putting the whole deal in writing. The military lied to my son when they were recruiting him and the only reason they didn't get away with it is he is as stubborn and hard to get along with as his Daddy.

Our govenment tells more lies than a horney 17yr old trying to get laid!
 
Jogeephus":jgjogvi0 said:
I may have messed you up cause I had to edit something. But I'll tally you as a yes.

Jo this is a hard one the USAF offered my youngest a free ride in return for X number years of service. I can't remember how many years he had to serve. He turned it down and is still kicking his butt.
 
I have been a Registered Nurse for 23 years and have a masters in business.

The present forecast for surgeons and physicians is not all that cheerful right now. Obamacare and socializing medicine are not going to go kindly for our physicians. This is why many physicians are now unable to speak regular English and are here working on green cards. Foreign doctors that come in from Mexico, pakistan, india, canada....they are willing to take a low salary to replace our US natives.

The surgeons and anesthesiologists that I see on a daily basis all vocalize regret for choosing medicine. The days of the independent practitioner are coming to an end. Hospitals gained plenty from Obamacare but private practice physicians are set to suffer. In the future, many if not all physicians will be forced to become employed by hospitals as "hospitalists" or salaried by the hospital as an employee. This cuts all ambition out of the picture. It also causes the quality of care to suffer. It is also becoming very close to being a government employee when you think about it. There will be no difference. The government already controls much of medicine.

I hate to sound like a wet blanket. If your son is bright, and talented and likes to use his own creativity and drive to make a way for himself, then,.,..,I would advise him to do something outside of being a physician. Be a researcher, a nuclear physicist, aerospace engineer, design and develop major construction ....anything where you can set your own goals, achieve them, and be rewarded financially by working for YOURSELF. Once he invests that amount of time and money into medical school he is locked in.

Dentistry might be better for the independence it offers. Perhaps pharmacist and own your own business.

I recently had a 3 hour conversation with the surgeon that operates locally. He graduated from med school 3 years ago and came directly to East TX. He said that the typical contract these days offers in the neighborhood of $450K to the surgeon as annual salary for 4 year contract. During this time period the deal is, the hospital is keeping up with how much money the doc earned FOR the hospital. At the end of the 4 year period they hand the doc a statement that says he only earned X amount of dollars for the hospital in the past 4 years and he owes the balance. Meanwhile half of the guy's annual salary is eaten up in taxes. So he is quite unhappy with his chosen profession. Plus being on call 24/7 means you have no life.

Make sure he talks to lots of surgeons and specialists about how they perceive their financial future and their level of job satisfaction before he really commits.
 
I am not informed enough about the military to give an opinion Jo . However, I am very proud of your son and I have never met him, he and peers like him are the key to us even having a future.

Good luck and best wishes to all of you whatever his decision will be . :tiphat:
 
I congratulate you on having such fine young men, and I congratulate them on their work ethic and goals! I guess I am reluctant to endorse the military right now since it seems it is always budget cuts on the agenda. I don't feel it would be in their best interests and I truly think their imagination and inventiveness would be stifled. I understand the need to be debt-free, and the WANT to be debt-free but the military does NOT condone independence. I also understand Lauralee Farm's stance as it is becoming increasingly difficult and hazardous to be in private practice as a Doctor!
I wonder if research & development, or some private sector business with deep pocketbooks might find both of them a hot commodity.... I would encourage them to seek further and explore other options.
 
Jo, I don't know and I was faced with a very similar decision. I didn't do it because of my wife at the time. There is good and bad. 8 years is a long time and I worry about what we will be into by the time its over. When you sign up, you go where they tell you. Geographical location as well as area of study. It isn't as rosy as they paint it, I'm sure you both know that.

Consider this, if you are making 200k to 300k a year, would making a 150k debt payment be as worrysome. If he is careful, loans can be paid off quicker than you think. Plus, he will be paid during residency. Not tons, but enough. A good friends wife just finished her surgical residency last year.

I know some who love it, some who didn't. I think in some ways, it can hinder you and other ways may offer an avenue of advancement.

The debt should not be the focus. Look at everything else first.

There is a lot of freedom given up, but then again, I don't know how healthcare is going to be functioning in the near future either. But I almost see the army option as putting a ceiling on potential in some aspects.

Seems like a head bowing moment. I'll send a prayer from here that he finds the path meant for him.
 

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