Cabo
Well-known member
I feel like me giving advice to you or your son would be like Obummer giving advice to Reagan. Congrats on raising such fine youngsters.
Would like some advice to give advice to son
- Thread starter Jogeephus
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Ryder
Well-known member
No!
Many good comments on this subject, but some stand out to me. Read what Laureleesfarm, I luv herfords, and melking had to say.
The way I see it army, medical school, surgery, and cancer research are too many pieces to the puzzle to deal with at this time.
The army route to school can be a very good opportunity for someone that does not have the money to go otherwise. But today there are loan programs available that many if not the majority use for school. Plus you say you can help him out. So I don't see why he would obligate years of his life to the army when he doesn't really have too. Like Melking indicated, being in uniform is certainly not the only, or even the best way, to be of service.
I'm not sure the surgery-cancer research thing is a good partnership for him to count on at his age. Certainly not to plan a research career beginning at 41. To be a research scientist is not something you can just go get a job doing. It takes years of concentrated work to develop. 41 is old when you consider how hard and long it takes to find a place to be trained as a researcher, probably get advanced degrees/training, develop a program and learn grantsmanship which is necessary to compete for research funds. All this can be very competitive. I don't doubt that he is very bright. But all the competitors are at these levels.
To begin a career as a surgeon/physician is one thing. To start on a road to being a scientist is another. Yes, there are sometimes crossovers. But that cannot be counted on.
I think there are real questions to be dealt with. Does he want to be an army officer? Does he want to be a physician? Does he want to be a scientist?
Look at these individually and don't try to ride off in too many directions.
Many good comments on this subject, but some stand out to me. Read what Laureleesfarm, I luv herfords, and melking had to say.
The way I see it army, medical school, surgery, and cancer research are too many pieces to the puzzle to deal with at this time.
The army route to school can be a very good opportunity for someone that does not have the money to go otherwise. But today there are loan programs available that many if not the majority use for school. Plus you say you can help him out. So I don't see why he would obligate years of his life to the army when he doesn't really have too. Like Melking indicated, being in uniform is certainly not the only, or even the best way, to be of service.
I'm not sure the surgery-cancer research thing is a good partnership for him to count on at his age. Certainly not to plan a research career beginning at 41. To be a research scientist is not something you can just go get a job doing. It takes years of concentrated work to develop. 41 is old when you consider how hard and long it takes to find a place to be trained as a researcher, probably get advanced degrees/training, develop a program and learn grantsmanship which is necessary to compete for research funds. All this can be very competitive. I don't doubt that he is very bright. But all the competitors are at these levels.
To begin a career as a surgeon/physician is one thing. To start on a road to being a scientist is another. Yes, there are sometimes crossovers. But that cannot be counted on.
I think there are real questions to be dealt with. Does he want to be an army officer? Does he want to be a physician? Does he want to be a scientist?
Look at these individually and don't try to ride off in too many directions.
I liked Ryder's comments in the last post. "I think there are real questions to be dealt with. Does he want to be an army officer? Does he want to be a physician? Does he want to be a scientist?
Look at these individually and don't try to ride off in too many directions."
I have a brother in the military Jo - he graduates from the Academy this year - and it's working out great for him. Think he has 5 years to pay back but he'll probably stay longer and make a career out of it. FWIW there are a lot of military recruiters who come through the medical/veterinary schools. Army, Air Force, etc. It sounds like #2 is a very talented young man Jo, but he should be careful to keep an accurate mindset regarding their offer. They'll pay for loans and education for anyone that gets accepted in their program. He's a special guy but he's just a number to the recruiters. AF came through my school last fall and their offer for any of my classmates was that all our future education would be paid and we'd get a $2000/month stipend while in school, and 3 years of service to pay back after we graduate. FWIW I don't think any of us applied for it.
He's not in med school yet, right Jo? Make sure he realizes that the recruiters come through in undergrad - but they *also* come back and recruit people in professional schools. He could always get accepted and start medical school first, and then take the offer (eg, once they can't prevent him from starting med school). That offer doesn't expire when he graduates undergrad. It may be a different offer, but he can always join later. He can also apply for work/loan repayment with the military after he graduates med school - it's more competitive, but there are options for signing on later. And, I'm not certain what the deal is in med school vs vet school, but many states offer loan repayment programs depending on where you work/what type of work you do after getting your doctorate.
Ask him if he's on the Student Doctor Network forums. http://studentdoctor.net/ He may find the topic's been discussed before on there and other people have good advice. The MD/pharm/dentist/etc forums are very active and there's a lot of good information.
The choice is his, and if accepting the offer will get him where he wants to go with his life - there's no reason not to take it. Edit: The military option is great for someone who doesn't know what they want to do with their life, or doesn't have a strong opinion on where they want to go. (Personally, I have some strong opinions about what I want to do with my DVM. I have no idea what my life will look like when I graduate veterinary school and I want complete freedom to move, live, and work where ever I want. Not everyone has that outlook- but there's why I haven't gone the military route.) Some of the vet students here are in the Army program- and it works out well. They're not going to have to worry about getting a job when they get out, they don't have educational expenses/loans, and their families are provided for right now (one is married with a couple kids). It can be a very attractive option.
Look at these individually and don't try to ride off in too many directions."
I have a brother in the military Jo - he graduates from the Academy this year - and it's working out great for him. Think he has 5 years to pay back but he'll probably stay longer and make a career out of it. FWIW there are a lot of military recruiters who come through the medical/veterinary schools. Army, Air Force, etc. It sounds like #2 is a very talented young man Jo, but he should be careful to keep an accurate mindset regarding their offer. They'll pay for loans and education for anyone that gets accepted in their program. He's a special guy but he's just a number to the recruiters. AF came through my school last fall and their offer for any of my classmates was that all our future education would be paid and we'd get a $2000/month stipend while in school, and 3 years of service to pay back after we graduate. FWIW I don't think any of us applied for it.
He's not in med school yet, right Jo? Make sure he realizes that the recruiters come through in undergrad - but they *also* come back and recruit people in professional schools. He could always get accepted and start medical school first, and then take the offer (eg, once they can't prevent him from starting med school). That offer doesn't expire when he graduates undergrad. It may be a different offer, but he can always join later. He can also apply for work/loan repayment with the military after he graduates med school - it's more competitive, but there are options for signing on later. And, I'm not certain what the deal is in med school vs vet school, but many states offer loan repayment programs depending on where you work/what type of work you do after getting your doctorate.
Ask him if he's on the Student Doctor Network forums. http://studentdoctor.net/ He may find the topic's been discussed before on there and other people have good advice. The MD/pharm/dentist/etc forums are very active and there's a lot of good information.
The choice is his, and if accepting the offer will get him where he wants to go with his life - there's no reason not to take it. Edit: The military option is great for someone who doesn't know what they want to do with their life, or doesn't have a strong opinion on where they want to go. (Personally, I have some strong opinions about what I want to do with my DVM. I have no idea what my life will look like when I graduate veterinary school and I want complete freedom to move, live, and work where ever I want. Not everyone has that outlook- but there's why I haven't gone the military route.) Some of the vet students here are in the Army program- and it works out well. They're not going to have to worry about getting a job when they get out, they don't have educational expenses/loans, and their families are provided for right now (one is married with a couple kids). It can be a very attractive option.
OP
OP
Jogeephus
Well-known member
Milkmaid, he won't start till fall cause I have a few chores for him to do this summer to recoup some of my expenses. ;-)
I don't think rank or money is really of any interest to him. I think its the quest for knowledge that drives him and the satisfactiion he feels when he unravels a puzzle.
I think what he truly wants to be is a researcher where he doesn't have to deal with having to listen to people complain daily about their ailments. Its not that he is uncaring because he is far from that and goes out of his way to visit with patients in the hospital and nursing home. He has a great bedside manner and is capable and aware of his need to dumb down his conversation to whatever level he needs to to put people at ease. He is very humble and very personable and very focused. But the way his mind works is truly a gift. He can draw connections between seemingly insignificant unrelated things and apply them to the problem at hand. He has been asked to go to Virginia in a few weeks to give a talk on his conclusion of some research he has been working on for the last two years. I view this is a real honor given he doesn't even have a degree yet.
But, you are exactly right that its going to be his decision and I'm glad its his and not mine because I'm torn on this because at my age I can see how nice it would be to have that steady pension and benefits but of course I've had my freedom to do as I like and one can't have their cake and eat it too. What's worse is I think he would follow my advice and I really don't want this on my shoulder because its his life and not mine and as long as my children do right and live right I will sacrifice whatever I have to to help them but the idea of getting off the hook for some of these expenses, to be brutally honest, is very apealing to the selfish side of me.
But I'm taking in all these points and am thinking of creating a flow chart of sorts with these three columns in mind and list all the pros and cons of each choice and maybe this will put aid him in making his decision if he hasn't already been told what to do with that quiet voice.
I really appreciate all the help from eveyone.
I don't think rank or money is really of any interest to him. I think its the quest for knowledge that drives him and the satisfactiion he feels when he unravels a puzzle.
I think what he truly wants to be is a researcher where he doesn't have to deal with having to listen to people complain daily about their ailments. Its not that he is uncaring because he is far from that and goes out of his way to visit with patients in the hospital and nursing home. He has a great bedside manner and is capable and aware of his need to dumb down his conversation to whatever level he needs to to put people at ease. He is very humble and very personable and very focused. But the way his mind works is truly a gift. He can draw connections between seemingly insignificant unrelated things and apply them to the problem at hand. He has been asked to go to Virginia in a few weeks to give a talk on his conclusion of some research he has been working on for the last two years. I view this is a real honor given he doesn't even have a degree yet.
But, you are exactly right that its going to be his decision and I'm glad its his and not mine because I'm torn on this because at my age I can see how nice it would be to have that steady pension and benefits but of course I've had my freedom to do as I like and one can't have their cake and eat it too. What's worse is I think he would follow my advice and I really don't want this on my shoulder because its his life and not mine and as long as my children do right and live right I will sacrifice whatever I have to to help them but the idea of getting off the hook for some of these expenses, to be brutally honest, is very apealing to the selfish side of me.
But I'm taking in all these points and am thinking of creating a flow chart of sorts with these three columns in mind and list all the pros and cons of each choice and maybe this will put aid him in making his decision if he hasn't already been told what to do with that quiet voice.
I really appreciate all the help from eveyone.
