Why Genomics Will Be the Future of EPDs

[Bright Raven]

I'm no geneticist or genomics guru but the way I see it these markers for traits are not found by just scanning the markers and saying hey that one has a big bump there so that must be for big balls so we will call that a marker for scrotals. The way I see it they get the DNA from an animal with high accuracy EPD's and look for something that lines up with is common in another high accuracy animal for that trait and another and another and of course with the massive computing power they have now this is easy to do. But the whole backbone of this process is the recording of raw data. RAW DATA IS KING for checking on what they have already found and for looking ahead to find more markers and to improve the accuracy. We have only just started on the process but the information is growing at an exponential rate.

Angus Australia has a benchmark programme that has been going for about a decade now. 100 straws from a bull are used on heifers from cooperative herds and progeny followed through to slaughter or calving. This data is used to help prove the genomics as well as individual EBV's of an animal however the amount of research that is feeding off this data is incredible. The CSIRO, many universities, Meat and Livestock Australia, drug companies are using the data to complement their own research and are contributing to the cost of the programme as well. I am sure the use far exceeds the original intention of the programme of improving accuracy of EBV's of future sires.

RAW DATA is king.

Ken

Amen. Thanks. A marker is a section of DNA. What animal scientist with the help of geneticist all over the globe are doing is correlating those markers with functions, traits and performance.

Once they get that correlation, then they move to the collection of RAW DATA. This is where you see real results of how a bull influences the offspring.

You mentioned the efforts of other institutions. I would like to emphasize that. Given enough time to verify the validity of the markers and how they influence function, traits and performance, EPDs are going to be much more effective.

This bears repeating:

We have only just started on the process but the information is growing at an exponential rate.

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

I disagree with the epds getting better they won't. I do believe the dna will evolve to stand on it own.

 

[Bright Raven]

I disagree with the epds getting better they won't. I do believe the dna will evolve to stand on it own.

I acknowledge your skepticism. I will only say, they go hand in hand.

 

[artesianspringsfarm]

I disagree with the epds getting better they won't. I do believe the dna will evolve to stand on it own.

I acknowledge your skepticism. I will only say, they go hand in hand.

If only we could hold you to that "only." :lol:

 

[Bright Raven]

I disagree with the epds getting better they won't. I do believe the dna will evolve to stand on it own.

I acknowledge your skepticism. I will only say, they go hand in hand.

If only we could hold you to that "only." :lol:

There is a lot of negativity surrounding this subject. I often wonder if folks don't want EPDs to work.

 

[CreekAngus]

I acknowledge your skepticism. I will only say, they go hand in hand.

If only we could hold you to that "only." :lol:

There is a lot of negativity surrounding this subject. I often wonder if folks don't want EPDs to work.

For those of us in Angus have witnessed EPD's not working, other breeds may have holes in their data and formulations as well, I don't know. I want EPD's to work and work correctly and I think dna data really helps. This afternoon I saw Select Sires posted an add for all their top $M bulls as they should, it's a another marketing tool the AAA gave them. Are we confident in the $M and the epd's that make up the value?

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

I disagree with the epds getting better they won't. I do believe the dna will evolve to stand on it own.

I acknowledge your skepticism. I will only say, they go hand in hand.

They do not go hand in hand. Every one says each animals dna is its own, and it is. But its dna is compared to the training population they got the markers from. Geneseek runs the raw numbers then sends that to IGS in our case BR. IGS runs the raw numbers threw it program to include it in the epds. Lots of room to error.
I will give you something to try BR. Send your sample to the simmi folks then send a sample to geneseek for and get a profile run.

 

[Bright Raven]

If only we could hold you to that "only." :lol:

There is a lot of negativity surrounding this subject. I often wonder if folks don't want EPDs to work.

For those of us in Angus have witnessed EPD's not working, other breeds may have holes in their data and formulations as well, I don't know. I want EPD's to work and work correctly and I think dna data really helps. This afternoon I saw Select Sires posted an add for all their top $M bulls as they should, it's a another marketing tool the AAA gave them. Are we confident in the $M and the epd's that make up the value?

Understood. This effort is industry wide. As far as matching markers.

 

[Bright Raven]

I disagree with the epds getting better they won't. I do believe the dna will evolve to stand on it own.

I acknowledge your skepticism. I will only say, they go hand in hand.

They do not go hand in hand. Every one says each animals dna is its own, and it is. But its dna is compared to the training population they got the markers from. Geneseek runs the raw numbers then sends that to IGS in our case BR. IGS runs the raw numbers threw it program to include it in the epds. Lots of room to error.
I will give you something to try BR. Send your sample to the simmi folks then send a sample to geneseek for and get a profile run.

As things currently stand, I can agree. But when the markers are correlated and the raw data to validate the effect of specific markers (point Ken made) on traits, they should walk hand in hand.

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

How many bulls in the US do you think have real carcass data? I don't mean ultrasound. I mean calves graded on the rail.

 

[Bright Raven]

How many bulls in the US do you think have real carcass data? I don't mean ultrasound. I mean calves graded on the rail.

Don't know. Connect that to the use of markers to improve EPDs.

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

How many bulls in the US do you think have real carcass data? I don't mean ultrasound. I mean calves graded on the rail.

Bulls...none

Yes there are bulls that have real data. Wulf Cattle has tons of data on there bulls. I am sure there is quite a few angus bulls with good kill data to back them up. But there are hundreds or thousands that have none ever. Cows never get any credit other than what comes from there sire or sons.

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

How many bulls in the US do you think have real carcass data? I don't mean ultrasound. I mean calves graded on the rail.

Don't know. Connect that to the use of markers to improve EPDs.

Explain why x animals epd's go down when enhanced. But you can run a dna profile that comes back great in all the traits that the epd's went down in.

 

[Bright Raven]

How many bulls in the US do you think have real carcass data? I don't mean ultrasound. I mean calves graded on the rail.

Don't know. Connect that to the use of markers to improve EPDs.

Explain why x animals epd's go down when enhanced. But you can run a dna profile that comes back great in all the traits that the epd's went down in.

To do that, it would be nice to see the actual EPDs involved and the numbers. Do all values go down on enhanced and then all come back up on the profile or does it vary?

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

Its straight across most times. The biggest problem i have with the enchanced epds we have is i get no real information from the dna. With the profiles i can get information on every trait the epd's have. Then i can use both of them.

 

[cow pollinater]

Angus Australia has a benchmark programme that has been going for about a decade now. 100 straws from a bull are used on heifers from cooperative herds and progeny followed through to slaughter or calving. This data is used to help prove the genomics as well as individual EBV's of an animal however the amount of research that is feeding off this data is incredible. The CSIRO, many universities, Meat and Livestock Australia, drug companies are using the data to complement their own research and are contributing to the cost of the programme as well. I am sure the use far exceeds the original intention of the programme of improving accuracy of EBV's of future sires.

RAW DATA is king.

Ken

That's how the dairy industry proves sires here in the US. The ONLY reason it isn't done that way on the beef side of things is money. On the diary side young sire sells for as little as $2 a straw. On the beef side hot new sires are $20-40 a straw and will usually drop from there as the sire gets proven. Only a handful retain their worth over time so the studs make sure they make their money up front.

 

[Bright Raven]

Its straight across most times. The biggest problem i have with the enchanced epds we have is i get no real information from the dna. With the profiles i can get information on every trait the epd's have. Then i can use both of them.

IDK. I consider EPDs about like most others do, in current form, they are a weak tool. In the future when there is more validated feedback, it has the promise of greater predictability.

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

Its straight across most times. The biggest problem i have with the enchanced epds we have is i get no real information from the dna. With the profiles i can get information on every trait the epd's have. Then i can use both of them.

IDK. I consider EPDs about like most others do, in current form, they are a weak tool. In the future when there is more validated feedback, it has the promise of greater predictability.

Do you send in dna on your calves? If so take a extra sample and send it to geneseek. Cost 29.00 for the geneseek profiles.

 

[Bright Raven]

Its straight across most times. The biggest problem i have with the enchanced epds we have is i get no real information from the dna. With the profiles i can get information on every trait the epd's have. Then i can use both of them.

IDK. I consider EPDs about like most others do, in current form, they are a weak tool. In the future when there is more validated feedback, it has the promise of greater predictability.

Do you send in dna on your calves? If so take a extra sample and send it to geneseek. Cost 29.00 for the geneseek profiles.

Only if I need to check for a genetic defect or parentage. I want to profile my entire herd.

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

https://www.neogen.com/en/geneseek-announces-next-generation-of-dna-technology-geneseek-genomic-profiler-bovine-hd