Who to breed to.....

[CentralFLAngus]

Looking for suggestions on who I should breed a progress x ambush cow to? Have a heifer calf out of her that was bred to Decagon (All in son) that am looking to breed.

My top three are Sure Fire, Acclaim, and Patriot.

Calving ease is a big deal for us, probably to a fault.

TIA.

 

[jscunn]

The Acclaim will have more frame than the Sure Fire.. I need more info on Patriot. Full name?

 

[CentralFLAngus]

Deer Valley Patriot. He is elite calving ease from select sires.

I mention select sires bulls because they are most cost effective to get where we are.

 

[W.B.]

Small herd I assume docility a high priority so I would probably go with Sure Fire. Patriot is below breed avg for docility. It really depends on wants and needs.

 

[CentralFLAngus]

W.B. thank you for the advice!

The heifer has been shown and is really calm.

People talk about Docility and how it is concerning especially on a small farm. To be completely honest, we have never had an big issue with bulls or cows being flighty, there is always that one or two cows that have lost themselves though.

Changing topics a bit to talk more docility, do yall think that docility is really more genetic than it is sociological and how they are raised? I know I have one steer that just doesn't like me for whatever reason (maybe he remembers that I castrated him?), but is absolutely fine with my dad. Our current bull has a low docility rating (3), but before I bid on him I was in and around the pens with him for a few hours, no issue, and no issues in nearly a year having him. His calves have come out spry and running within a day or so.

 

[W.B.]

Cattle can tell differences in people, by your body language. How you walk and how fast you move are noticed by cattle. I am guessing the steer you talk about sees your dad more often than you do.
Genetics is still a big part of it. They are not all the same obviously.

 

[CentralFLAngus]

Yes the steer sees my dad more often. I understand what you are saying. We try to pick our replacements out of good calm momma's. I think that we can all agree that none of us have time for a cow running from you and breaking things. Those cows are called culls. In the steers case, he only has one more day to run away from me, because tomorrow = steak!

 

[T & B farms]

My first post must have been deleted.
I am not a gar fan at all, but I have saw some very nice surefire calves. The daughters in production had very good udders and seemed to be holding flesh better than other gar cattle I've been around. His steers seem to weigh off well also. He is the only active gar bull I would consider using.
I almost ordered Coleman venture to go in my heifers, but decided upon mill bar Hickok.
May use venture on my 7229 heifers next year

 

[Welter Bros Angus]

Personally, I really like surefire. Had a few bull calves out of him that are flat out good. They're long, deep bodied, and voluminous. I'm keeping one back as a bull for my uncles commercial operation. I'm not a fan of acclaim. He's just too much frame for me and I haven't been impressed with the growth on his calves. On the topic of docility, rampage is the one bull I will always stay away from even if his growth and calving ease is for real. Every sale I've gone to that has had rampage bulls, they have been the worst for docility among sure groups. So, I really do believe in the fact that docility is derived from genetics, especially when I first used charlo. There's never a perfect bull out there, just have to make the best mating decisions and hope everything turns. Every bull has a defect, some worse than others, just have to manage appropriately.

 

[CentralFLAngus]

Personally, I really like surefire. Had a few bull calves out of him that are flat out good. They're long, deep bodied, and voluminous. I'm keeping one back as a bull for my uncles commercial operation. I'm not a fan of acclaim. He's just too much frame for me and I haven't been impressed with the growth on his calves. On the topic of docility, rampage is the one bull I will always stay away from even if his growth and calving ease is for real. Every sale I've gone to that has had rampage bulls, they have been the worst for docility among sure groups. So, I really do believe in the fact that docility is derived from genetics, especially when I first used charlo. There's never a perfect bull out there, just have to make the best mating decisions and hope everything turns. Every bull has a defect, some worse than others, just have to manage appropriately.

Thanks for your 2 cents! Most everyone I have spoken with here in the southeast about Sure Fire progeny say they are vigorous growing and look very nice, both steers and heifers.

In reality, I'm just playing with genetics because we aren't selling purebred animals, our goal is to get better genetics in our herd overall. If I happen to sell a calf, so be it. Other than that this calf has the potential to be either a breeding female or a potential replacement herd bull down the line.

Regarding Rampage, that is really amazing that it is that bad. There are not many sales around us in Central Florida with purebred genetics, so I don't get to see large sire groups.

At Deer Valley last spring I saw Weigh Ups, Rampage, and some Resistols..... None were flighty, so that's positive.

 

[jscunn]

CentralFL Angus,
A good honest semen rep can be your eyes sometimes. The honest part is important, my select guy fits that bill. He knows what I want, along with what he thinks a certain bull will do in general. That being said he recommended GAR Sure Fire to me this fall, so we used him some. Sure Fire certainly has more muscle shape than most GAR bulls at least in a photograph. He has also cautioned me on bulls I was interested in using, in terms of Frame Score, phenotype, etc. Find a guy you trust whether he is Select, ABS, GENEX and stick with him. Mine sees a bunch of different cattle every year, along with the corporate trip to the big farm/ranch once a year.

 

[CentralFLAngus]

CentralFL Angus,
A good honest semen rep can be your eyes sometimes. The honest part is important, my select guy fits that bill. He knows what I want, along with what he thinks a certain bull will do in general. That being said he recommended GAR Sure Fire to me this fall, so we used him some. Sure Fire certainly has more muscle shape than most GAR bulls at least in a photograph. He has also cautioned me on bulls I was interested in using, in terms of Frame Score, phenotype, etc. Find a guy you trust whether he is Select, ABS, GENEX and stick with him. Mine sees a bunch of different cattle every year, along with the corporate trip to the big farm/ranch once a year.

I have a select sires rep that I like. He actually gave me these three as top choices out of a list of 9 I have him.

He immediately said that he had not seen calves out of 4 of them and only sold 5 straws of another. As a result I got down to these 3. In reality I have made a decision with my partner on this one, wanted to hear opinions about what to expect from the matings.

Basically I am hoping for a heifer that will have a broader frame than the mother.

 

[CreekAngus]

If your goal is better genetics and calving ease, while staying with Select Sires, my top 3 would be Flat Top, Bronc and Chisum. Before you use Acclaim look around and see if you can find any progeny, a lot of folks I've talked with usually use terms like 'terminal" when talking about his progeny. Flat Top and Bronc have two of the best dams in the business and I just plain like Chisum, I'm using him on my heifers.

 

[LCBulls]

If your goal is better genetics and calving ease, while staying with Select Sires, my top 3 would be Flat Top, Bronc and Chisum. Before you use Acclaim look around and see if you can find any progeny, a lot of folks I've talked with usually use terms like 'terminal" when talking about his progeny. Flat Top and Bronc have two of the best dams in the business and I just plain like Chisum, I'm using him on my heifers.

I'd add Tex Playbook to that list. His calves came easy and had excellent shape and structure.

 

[CreekAngus]

If your goal is better genetics and calving ease, while staying with Select Sires, my top 3 would be Flat Top, Bronc and Chisum. Before you use Acclaim look around and see if you can find any progeny, a lot of folks I've talked with usually use terms like 'terminal" when talking about his progeny. Flat Top and Bronc have two of the best dams in the business and I just plain like Chisum, I'm using him on my heifers.

I'd add Tex Playbook to that list. His calves came easy and had excellent shape and structure.

Never seen any of his progeny, but seems to be gaining some traction out there. I think Coneally has a few sons in their sale will be interested to see how they look and what kind of price.

 

[Hogtiming]

I am going to use baldridge Thor on my heifers. He's unproven but he is a tank and has a great pedigree and calving ease . Proven from select sires Thunderbird makes good females.

My 2 cents. If your stacking calving ease on calving ease I would pick a calving ease Bull that also some power behind him. The alternative is bad imo

 

[CattleMan1920]

I'd be seriously considering Bubs Southern Charm if I were you. We are using him right now on heifers.

 

[CentralFLAngus]

I am going to use baldridge Thor on my heifers. He's unproven but he is a tank and has a great pedigree and calving ease . Proven from select sires Thunderbird makes good females.

My 2 cents. If your stacking calving ease on calving ease I would pick a calving ease Bull that also some power behind him. The alternative is bad imo

Thank you for that different point of view. Is certainly interesting to hear different people and their thoughts.

Your reasoning above is part of the reason Acclaim was in the mix. Proven CED and growth. Worst case scenario is I end up with something terminal I guess.

 

[CattleMan1920]

You could end up with terminal using a double digit CED bull, I've seen it happen several times.

 

[CreekAngus]

I'd be seriously considering Bubs Southern Charm if I were you. We are using him right now on heifers.

She is only using Select Sires bulls. And Charm is a little heavy on the BW, for what she's looking for.