Which protocol to use?

[Josher]

I am just wondering what you all are using? What's gives the best catch rate and is cost effective for you?
Right now we are AI ing over a 12 day span. Heat detect and ai 5 days then give PG on day 5 and heat detect and AI and give GnRh same time over the next 7 days. After 12 days we are done. Also use estrotec to help with heat detection. Of those that we AI usually right around 80% will catch. And there's maybe 10%-20% that don't cycle in that window. Biggest cost of this is my labour and the feed. Not sure what this protocol is called but it's what we've been doing for the last few years on cows.

 

[StrojanHerefords]

If what you are doing is working, I wouldn't change. Are you breeding once or twice per day? And I am not sure why you are giving GnRH when breeding off of heats?

What I have been doing is
Day 0 CIDR GNRH Multimin
Day 6 Lute
Day 7
Day 9 Breed Heats
Day 10 Breed TAI GnRH
Day 17 Put Embryos in.

We have a breeder come and breed so only having to breed on a couple days makes things nice. In December, we are limited to only being able to breed once a day. The one new that we are doing is rechalking the after the first day and if a cow is rubbed off again we put a second straw in the next day.

 

[wbvs58]

I am just wondering what you all are using? What's gives the best catch rate and is cost effective for you?
Right now we are AI ing over a 12 day span. Heat detect and ai 5 days then give PG on day 5 and heat detect and AI and give GnRh same time over the next 7 days. After 12 days we are done. Also use estrotec to help with heat detection. Of those that we AI usually right around 80% will catch. And there's maybe 10%-20% that don't cycle in that window. Biggest cost of this is my labour and the feed. Not sure what this protocol is called but it's what we've been doing for the last few years on cows.

It sounds like it aint broke so I would not be fixing it. I do cidrs for 8 days and inseminate on heat detection on day 10 & 11. I think I got 65% this year. The bull goes in a couple of days after the last insemination to get to know the girls before they are due back on heat. My aim is to have them all calving within 21 days. I do weaken and usually keep a couple outside of this window but not too far out and only a couple.

Ken

 

[Mountaintown Creek Ranch]

We have used 7 day synch for a few years. We weren't seeing great heats. Been thinking about 7+7, but we went ahead and bred the last 6-7 girls on standing heat.
For the last few years we were successful AI 52% with less than great heats IMO... delivered 73% heifers.

 

[GoWyo]

I use the 7-day co-sync with CIDRs and heat detect and usually get 68-80% stick rate on the ones I breed off observed heat. I don't try to use TAI as maybe 1/5 stick that don't show heat. I never breed until they quit standing. I have used the 7+7, and had great heat response, but no better percentage pregnancy rate and it isn't worth the hassle and expense.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

I am just wondering what you all are using? What's gives the best catch rate and is cost effective for you?
Right now we are AI ing over a 12 day span. Heat detect and ai 5 days then give PG on day 5 and heat detect and AI and give GnRh same time over the next 7 days. After 12 days we are done. Also use estrotec to help with heat detection. Of those that we AI usually right around 80% will catch. And there's maybe 10%-20% that don't cycle in that window. Biggest cost of this is my labour and the feed. Not sure what this protocol is called but it's what we've been doing for the last few years on cows.

This is IMHO the cheapest and best protocol. I think you meant breed 5 days, then give PG on day SIX. Continue heat detect & breed.
I use the patches but also use paint on tail heads. Calves seem to like to pull tags off mom (or chew on them) when she is laying down, LOL. Just gives me two tools to work with.
"IF" your cows are cycling, you should catch all of them in the 12-14 days. Then watch for repeats - or turn bull out.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

I have CIDR's here and occasionally use them. But, generally just use them to get a cow started cycling. Then wait a week & Lut her.
CIDRs are great tool. But, if you insert one into a cow that was close to ovulation, then when she finally does ovulate her egg - egg is stale. Not very viable.
Ken, have you heard this? anything to add or debunk? This was not scientific info!
I just like PG because they only cycle IF they have a viable CL. My semen is way too expensive to willy nilly put in my cows. I want to have a fighting chance of insemination!

 

[Josher]

If what you are doing is working, I wouldn't change. Are you breeding once or twice per day? And I am not sure why you are giving GnRH when breeding off of heats?

What I have been doing is
Day 0 CIDR GNRH Multimin
Day 6 Lute
Day 7
Day 9 Breed Heats
Day 10 Breed TAI GnRH
Day 17 Put Embryos in.

We have a breeder come and breed so only having to breed on a couple days makes things nice. In December, we are limited to only being able to breed once a day. The one new that we are doing is rechalking the after the first day and if a cow is rubbed off again we put a second straw in the next day.

Breeding twice a day using am/pm rule. Except for the sexed semen tried waiting a little longer 18-24 hr. And we use gnrh when AI only after they have been given estrumate just to improve our rate a little as recommended by my AI rep. He said it's proven to help and with the cost of everything else figured it would easily pay for itself.

 

[Josher]

This is IMHO the cheapest and best protocol. I think you meant breed 5 days, then give PG on day SIX. Continue heat detect & breed.
I use the patches but also use paint on tail heads. Calves seem to like to pull tags off mom (or chew on them) when she is laying down, LOL. Just gives me two tools to work with.
"IF" your cows are cycling, you should catch all of them in the 12-14 days. Then watch for repeats - or turn bull out.

Ok good to know and i wonder if some of the ones that don't cycle in the 12 days could be from five the pg shot too early. I do struggle with being patient. I wonder if there's a way to tweak this so it would go quicker. Could i give pg on day one, and day 6. Might help get some more cows out of the yard and onto pasture a little sooner.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

No. The shot only works if the cow has a CL. She does not start to develop a CL until so many days after she ovulated. Then, she sluffs the CL a few days before she is going to ovulate. So there is a window before and after ovulation that the shot won't work.
Obviously, if she already stuffed her CL ready to ovulate, the shot didn't hurt or help, because she was coming in heat any way.
If she does not have a CL, it is like giving her a shot of saline.
No reaction, no harm.
If her body has not started cycling after calving (no CL) she won't respond.
I'm not sure on the exact number of days before and after.

 

[wbvs58]

I have CIDR's here and occasionally use them. But, generally just use them to get a cow started cycling. Then wait a week & Lut her.
CIDRs are great tool. But, if you insert one into a cow that was close to ovulation, then when she finally does ovulate her egg - egg is stale. Not very viable.
Ken, have you heard this? anything to add or debunk? This was not scientific info!
I just like PG because they only cycle IF they have a viable CL. My semen is way too expensive to willy nilly put in my cows. I want to have a fighting chance of insemination!

I don't know anything about that Jeanne but I do wonder when I put cidrs in if any have just been on heat whether they will respond to the PG when the cidrs come out. I keep an eye out for any that are on heat when I'm putting them in and will put a straw into them.
I'm happy with 60% conception rate with introduced genetics but am happy with what I'm getting from my own bulls. My main goal is getting plenty of calves in a short time frame so they will be an even group at the autumn weaner sales. A flow on effect is with breeding them the following year they are all over 60 days post calving and are just dying to be bred rather than pushing the later ones.

Ken

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Ken, do you know how many days after cow sluffs CL and she ovulates/cycles?
And how many days after heat before she has a new CL?

 

[StrojanHerefords]

Ok good to know and i wonder if some of the ones that don't cycle in the 12 days could be from five the pg shot too early. I do struggle with being patient. I wonder if there's a way to tweak this so it would go quicker. Could i give pg on day one, and day 6. Might help get some more cows out of the yard and onto pasture a little sooner.

You can do that with by giving a shot of Gnrh on day 0 and then give a shot of PG on day 7 and only need to heat detect from day 6 to 13.

 

[Double R Ranch]

We mostly do the 7 & 7 protocol anymore. It works really well for us. We always use GNRH at breeding even with a standing heat. Cheap to use and if it helps catch a few more it's worth it to us.

 

[wbvs58]

Ken, do you know how many days after cow sluffs CL and she ovulates/cycles?
And how many days after heat before she has a new CL?

Not off hand Jeanne. I'm not good at remembering numbers.

Ken

 

[simme]

Here is a chart of the cycle.

 

[angus9259]

This is interesting. Thanks for posting. I've used a bunch of different methods and they all net about 60% as has been mentioned here. This year I did CIDRS so GNRH and CIDR day 1, pull CIDR and Lute day 7 and then timed AI and GNRH at 60-66 hours. 65%. Interesting to hear some disagreement about GNRH. This year I had my vet sleeve while I prepped semen. We gave em all a GNRH at breeding because that's what the protocol called for. My vet says the purpose of the timed approach and GNRH is to force ovulation. My vet says you never know when a cow will ovulate based on standing heat - they can all be different. So the purpose of the GNRH is so you KNOW when they ovulate because it happens with the shot. A handful of them I wanted to give another straw to later in the day because they were just starting to stand when we bred them and if I were breeding on standing heats, I would have strawed them later that day. She said it wouldn't matter because we gave them the shot so regardless of what we were seeing, they should ovulate based on when they got the shot, not when they were standing (in this case). Some we caught, some we. didn't. Who knows?

That said, I'm sticking with this program in the future I think. I felt like the CIDRS intensified the heat signals and I breed in November so there's almost no daylight and having my vet work with me we knocked out 10 animals in no time.

 

[Ebenezer]

Never forget that nutrition is a big part of the success if the forages are poor or limited. And have vaccinations completed at least (for me) 2 months beforehand.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

@simme THANK YOU. I was pretty sure on the 5 days from ovulation to building a CL, but wasn't sure on the other end.
But, everyone needs to realize that no cow is the same. My heifers "generally" have a 17-18 day cycle. Cows are usually pretty consistent at 21 days.
The 2 shot Lutalyse (PG) is the cheapest, "most" cattle only have to go thru the chute once (other than actual breeding) and you are breeding on the closest thing to a natural heat as possible using a "protocol".

 

[lithuanian farmer]

We use synchronization for heifers. Getting on average around 70-80% conception.
Day 1 PRID +Gnrh, Day 7 take PRID out + PG, AI after 56 hours + Gnrh.