White Clover Question

[nap]

I am planning on broadcasting white clove seed (Ladino). My question concerns inoculants. The inoculants that are available locally are kind of generic. Are there inoculants that are specific for white clover? I don't know if there are specific strains of bacteria that will only work with white clover or if the generics will work with all clovers. I also am wondering about mixing inoculant with seed. Is there a "best" method. I'd like to know your experiences in this regard. Thanks for the help.

 

[HerefordSire]

I don't think it is necessary in SW AR as mine apparently grows wild. If I were you, throw out some seed in about a 10 foot by 10 foot square right now and see what happens. What does the innoculant cost?

 

[nap]

The inoculants (generic) are about $12.00 a bag. A bag treats 50 lbs of seed. The seed is over $200.00 a bag, so I don't want to make any mistakes. Your idea to use a small area is interesting but I need the clover for early spring so it may be a little late to experiment.

 

[novatech]

I don't think it is necessary in SW AR as mine apparently grows wild. If I were you, throw out some seed in about a 10 foot by 10 foot square right now and see what happens. What does the innoculant cost?

I don't understand the point of doing this. Seed will grow without the inoculants. The inoculants are what produce the N when associated with the clover.
Inoculants are cheap insurance. I believe white clover uses the same inoculant as alfalfa. Cost should be around $4.00 per bag, but it has been a long time.

 

[nap]

I don't think it is necessary in SW AR as mine apparently grows wild. If I were you, throw out some seed in about a 10 foot by 10 foot square right now and see what happens. What does the innoculant cost?

I don't understand the point of doing this. Seed will grow without the inoculants. The inoculants are what produce the N when associated with the clover.
Inoculants are cheap insurance. I believe white clover uses the same inoculant as alfalfa. Cost should be around $4.00 per bag, but it has been a long time.

My understanding is that the inoculants encourage stolon growth which ultimately will lead to increased spreading of the clover. I would like to encourage as much nitrogen production as possible, thus saving on fertilizer costs.

 

[1982vett]

http://foragesoftexas.tamu.edu/ad/fixation.html

II. Clover Group
A. Type B Inoculant Ball, red, and white clovers
B. Type O Inoculant Arrowleaf clover
C. Type R Inoculant Berseem, crimson, and Persian clovers
D. Type WR Inoculants Rose and subterranean clovers

When purchasing inoculant be sure the legume species you want to plant is listed on the package and that the expiration date has not passed. The inoculant should be purchased when buying the legume seed several weeks in advance of the estimated planting date. This allows time for the retailer to order the seed and/or inoculant if not kept in stock. Ground peat moss is used as a carrier for the bacteria by inoculant companies. There are several brands of inoculant. The most effective ones are those which have a large number of rhizobia per gram of inoculant and contain a sticker that helps hold the inoculant to the seed such as HiStick and Pelinoc-Pelgel. Rhizobia bacteria are very susceptible to high temperatures. Be sure the inoculant is kept in a cool dry location away from direct sunlight. Most inoculant companies recommend their products be kept in a refrigerator until used except for HiStick, which can be kept at room temperature. It is desirable to drill the inoculated seed in the soil to help protect the bacteria from the sun and high temperatures.

 

[HerefordSire]

6% for innoculant...if unnecessary it is definitely not worth the expense....it is like our county sales tax of 8.25%. Who wants to pay sales taxes when it is hard enough to make a living ranching the way it is? I never heard it generates N. I am sure if you plant the clover by itself it will generate N, if it grows. My understanding of an innoculant is it puts fungus in the same area and allows the growth to thrive if the variety has not been planted in the same area before, such that the fungus is not existant where it is being planted.

 

[nap]

http://foragesoftexas.tamu.edu/ad/fixation.html

II. Clover Group
A. Type B Inoculant Ball, red, and white clovers
B. Type O Inoculant Arrowleaf clover
C. Type R Inoculant Berseem, crimson, and Persian clovers
D. Type WR Inoculants Rose and subterranean clovers

When purchasing inoculant be sure the legume species you want to plant is listed on the package and that the expiration date has not passed. The inoculant should be purchased when buying the legume seed several weeks in advance of the estimated planting date. This allows time for the retailer to order the seed and/or inoculant if not kept in stock. Ground peat moss is used as a carrier for the bacteria by inoculant companies. There are several brands of inoculant. The most effective ones are those which have a large number of rhizobia per gram of inoculant and contain a sticker that helps hold the inoculant to the seed such as HiStick and Pelinoc-Pelgel. Rhizobia bacteria are very susceptible to high temperatures. Be sure the inoculant is kept in a cool dry location away from direct sunlight. Most inoculant companies recommend their products be kept in a refrigerator until used except for HiStick, which can be kept at room temperature. It is desirable to drill the inoculated seed in the soil to help protect the bacteria from the sun and high temperatures.

Thanks for the great information!

 

[nap]

6% for innoculant...if unnecessary it is definitely not worth the expense....it is like our county sales tax of 8.25%. Who wants to pay sales taxes when it is hard enough to make a living ranching the way it is? I never heard it generates N. I am sure if you plant the clover by itself it will generate N, if it grows. My understanding of an innoculant is it puts fungus in the same area and allows the growth to thrive if the variety has not been planted in the same area before, such that the fungus is not existant where it is being planted.

I agree that this is yet another expense. I am hoping that I will have a lush paddock of clover so I can recoup some of that expense by saving on hay costs next March.

 

[dun]

The inoculant is what helps with the nodulization which increases the nitrogen. If you already have any clover at all in the field the odds are that the inoculant isn;t necesarry. BUT, it's darn cheap insurance. I've used the coke trick for getting the inoculant to stick but it's messy. If you get the seed damp with water then mix the inoculant and get it spread fast it will work

 

[ga. prime]

I've strowed out a few bags of arrowleaf and crimson clover this Fall and all I've been getting is pre-inoculated. Drawback is that the pre-inoculated seed are bigger and heavier with the inoculant coating and you get significantly less seed per bag than you would with non-inoculated.. The bags of arrowleaf appear to have twice the number of seed as the crimson.

 

[dun]

I've strowed out a few bags of arrowleaf and crimson clover this Fall and all I've been getting is pre-inoculated. Drawback is that the pre-inoculated seed are bigger and heavier with the inoculant coating and you get significantly less seed per bag than you would with non-inoculated.. The bags of arrowleaf appear to have twice the number of seed as the crimson.

Don;t use a roller type agitator when putting doen the pre-inoculated stuff. You end up with a clog of inoculant in the bottom of ths seeder. If it happens to get damp it's like getting concrete out of a mixer.

 

[ga. prime]

Roger that, dun. I've been slinging the seed out behind the drill or a light harrow pass with a hand cranked whirly rig.

 

[Jogeephus]

it is like our county sales tax of 8.25%. Who wants to pay sales taxes when it is hard enough to make a living ranching the way it is?

I disagree. With inoculant, you do actually get something in return if your soil already doesn't have a population. If you don't use inoculant and your soil doesn't have it, you will be able to tell by the pale green color. To remedy this, you can mix inocullant in a sprayer with water and spray over the top before a good rain. Its better than nothing.

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

Inoculanted seed seem to have a better germination. Not all clover seed is the same size ga. prime, suposed to more in the arrowleaf bags.

 

[novatech]

Here is a good article about legumes N fixing and inoculant.
http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/AG152
It was interesting to find out that even though there are nodules the color also must be right for N production.
I have also read studies that show that the N fixing ability of clover will increase with the addition of inoculant even though the bacteria is already in the soil.

 

[ga. prime]

Not all clover seed is the same size ga. prime, suposed to more in the arrowleaf bags.

Yes, that is easily evident. What is not evident (unless you have a bag of non and pre-inoculated seed to compare and I did) is that there are less seed in a bag of pre-inoculated crimson seed than in a bag of non-inoculated crimson seed. There are less seed in a bag of pre-inoculated arrowleaf seed than in a bag of non-inoculated arrowleaf seed.

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

Your about that ga but the inoculated seed do germinate better.

 

[BC]

6% for innoculant...if unnecessary it is definitely not worth the expense....it is like our county sales tax of 8.25%. Who wants to pay sales taxes when it is hard enough to make a living ranching the way it is? I never heard it generates N. I am sure if you plant the clover by itself it will generate N, if it grows. My understanding of an innoculant is it puts fungus in the same area and allows the growth to thrive if the variety has not been planted in the same area before, such that the fungus is not existant where it is being planted.

This is from http://aggieclover.tamu.edu site under selection - inocculation.
"Clovers are only able to use nitrogen from the air if specific strains of Rhizobium bacteria are present in nodules on their roots. To ensure that the best strain of Rhizobium bacteria is present for each clover species, inoculant is applied to the clover seed before planting (inoculation process). Inoculant is finely ground peat moss which acts as a carrier for the Rhizobium bacteria. Inoculants which also include an adhesive to hold the inoculant to the seed and aid in keeping the bacteria alive in dry soil are superior to inoculants without an adhesive. Good clover seed inoculation is especially important the first time a clover species is planted in a new area. Preinoculated seed of most clover species can be purchased".

 

[nap]

Thanks for sharing your experiences and the great advice. I, like the rest of you, am trying to get the most bang for my bucks. The field that I'm seeding doesn't have a lot of clover, just small clumps here and there, so I'm trying to encourage greater coverage and increase nitrogen fixation at the same time. I'm getting the feeling from the consensus of responses that inoculation is a good idea. I'm still unclear if a generic inoculant will work at all or if I need to find a species specific inoculant.