What's It Worth?

[skyline]

I have a good friend down the road from me and we're trying to come up with a value for something, and I'd appreciate your input on this.

I'd like a place to take my weaned heifer calves and keep them until they reach about 15 months (breeding age). At that point, I would either return them to the herd or sale them in a special Beefmaster E-6 sale in Columbus as open heifers.

My friend has about 20 acres around his house in 3 or 4 fenced areas. He has 3 horses that he runs on the place. We're talking about me using his place to run my heifers. I buy mineral, feed, and hay (if needed) and he provides water and grass. He would feed them once per day when they need supplementing. He likes to work his cutting horse and I've told him that he could use them for his cutting practice (which is probably only once a week or every other week for a few runs.) We've talked about me paying on a per head per month basis. We're talking about 5 to 12 calves per year through his place.

What is a reasonable rate for me to pay him?

 

[ALACOWMAN]

I have a good friend down the road from me and we're trying to come up with a value for something, and I'd appreciate your input on this.

I'd like a place to take my weaned heifer calves and keep them until they reach about 15 months (breeding age). At that point, I would either return them to the herd or sale them in a special Beefmaster E-6 sale in Columbus as open heifers.

My friend has about 20 acres around his house in 3 or 4 fenced areas. He has 3 horses that he runs on the place. We're talking about me using his place to run my heifers. I buy mineral, feed, and hay (if needed) and he provides water and grass. He would feed them once per day when they need supplementing. He likes to work his cutting horse and I've told him that he could use them for his cutting practice (which is probably only once a week or every other week for a few runs.) We've talked about me paying on a per head per month basis. We're talking about 5 to 12 calves per year through his place.

What is a reasonable rate for me to pay him?

I was with you up until the cutting part.. too many variable.. chance of broken limbs, weight loss stress from heat or pressure could cost you in late fertility.slow or stunted growth. i use to rope calve's but i bought all my stock at the barn never used anything from my herd.

 

[MikeC]

What is a reasonable rate for me to pay him?

What is the reasonable rate for him to pay you?

 

[spinandslide]

Shoot...I would call it even.

He gets help keeping his grass ate down AND gets cattle to work his horses on?

 

[backhoeboogie]

Skyline you are putting yourself in a lose/lose situation. Why are you going to pay for that?

He is getting a win/win situation with payment to boot. He will also gain the ability to claim ag-exemption, based on your cattle.

You should find yourself a better alternative.

 

[Alice]

Skyline you are putting yourself in a lose/lose situation. Why are you going to pay for that?

He is getting a win/win situation with payment to boot. He will also gain the ability to claim ag-exemption, based on your cattle.

You should find yourself a better alternative.

...and one with less wear and tear on, and chance of injury to, your cattle/calves.

Alice

 

[bandit80]

I'm with the majority here. Wouldn't want to risk injury/slow growth/etc in heifers I was wanting to put back in the herd. Yes it would be nice to have a place to develop them seperate from the main herd and have someone else feed them, but I wouldn't risk it.

 

[skyline]

Thanks for the input folks. I'm just living in the wrong part of the country and running out of options. Lease land is REAL hard to find around here, especially if you haven't got the network of a family in this area for 50 years. I've got to figure out a way to carry them from weaning to breeding. Between grazing the herd and trying to save back some pasture for hay, I'm running out of real estate. I guess I could dry lot them with hay and supplement on my place, but that doesn't seem very cost effective.

Regarding the cutting practice, I do understand your concern. I need to ponder this some more.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

Thanks for the input folks. I'm just living in the wrong part of the country and running out of options. Lease land is REAL hard to find around here, especially if you haven't got the network of a family in this area for 50 years. I've got to figure out a way to carry them from weaning to breeding. Between grazing the herd and trying to save back some pasture for hay, I'm running out of real estate. I guess I could dry lot them with hay and supplement on my place, but that doesn't seem very cost effective.

Regarding the cutting practice, I do understand your concern. I need to ponder this some more.

i lost 7 acres of rented pasture that was ideal for heifer development a couple years ago.. it was great to have but i would'nt trust them in the hands of another cowboy that dont share the same enthusiasm as me. cause if he get flusterated with his horse he will over work your cattle. they aint rodeo stock

 

[Alice]

We run jersey heifers for a cattle broker here from time to time (altho I just saw him off load about 6 holsteins), which runs the count right now up to 46 head. If I'm remembering correctly, he's paying $2 per head per day (my brother takes care of that end of things). He has about 10 just weaned jersey heifers among those that need to be supplemented, and he's paying my nephew to feed them (I don't know how much), and he provides the feed. Maybe that can give you an idea of the cost...

Alice

 

[shorty]

With what you're saying , I would call it even , that would be a good deal for both of you.

 

[backhoeboogie]

Thanks for the input folks. I'm just living in the wrong part of the country and running out of options. Lease land is REAL hard to find around here, especially if you haven't got the network of a family in this area for 50 years. I've got to figure out a way to carry them from weaning to breeding. Between grazing the herd and trying to save back some pasture for hay, I'm running out of real estate. I guess I could dry lot them with hay and supplement on my place, but that doesn't seem very cost effective.

Regarding the cutting practice, I do understand your concern. I need to ponder this some more.

Dang Skyline, Now I have another question, where are you going to put these heifers when they are cows? If you don't have enough real estate now, why are you expanding?

It is absolutely none of my business and there is really no need to answer. All I am saying is that something doesn't seem to add up from my perspective.

That land I have in Hallsville is all pine trees. I don't use it for anything. I'd offer it to you but it doesn't do much good.

I will check with family over there and see if there is something available if you'd like. My uncles have gotten old and most of them don't mess with cattle much. Bahia took over some of the pasture land my uncles had (part of my grandaddy's old place). Surely there is something available.

I have folks approaching me to lease around here. I need another 200 head as is.

 

[skyline]

BHB, that's a good question. I didn't give you all the information in my first post. I bought 10 new bred heifers in October of last year and got 4 heifer calves out of them. I want to return those four to my herd (since they are not out of my bull), which will put me about where I want to be long term with my herd size.

As far as the long term plans go, I need somewhere to develop heifers to send to the E-6 sale in Columbus. They've got to be 12 months old to sell down there. Thanks for your offer to ask about some land for lease over here. I'm about out of ideas. All the doctors and soccer moms are gobbling up land around here in 1 to 10 acre lots. I've got neighbors mowing 5 acres with zero turn mowers. Looks like a blooming park.

 

[BTRANCH]

What county are you in and how far would you be willing to drive?

 

[spoon]

Skyline would it be possible to use part of the hay field for the heifers and buy whatever extra hay you needed? I know some people don't put up any hay of their own and buy it all so just thought I'd throw that out there for what it's worth. Good luck.

 

[Brandonm22]

You might want to try talking to your county agent or regional beef cattle specialist or county Cattleman's Assoc President about this. I have read about some individuals and county groups around the country building/establishing joint heifer development programs where heifer calves are weaned, grown out, and bred then returned as bred heifers to their farm of origin. I read that Hale County (I think), AL has started a preconditioning lot like that for feeder calves. The risk of mixing cattle from different sources concerns me some; but you would think that somebody would know somebody somewhere where you could grow out those heifers for you for a very nominal fee with other heifers.

 

[TheBullLady]

I can't imagine taking them to a special sale after someone has been using them for cutting. They aren't going to put on or keep on weight if he runs them very much. I guess maybe you should talk to him about how often he's talking about using them, and is this a green horse? Is the horse going to be running with the cattle? I'm with the first posters.. if you're planning on selling the heifers, their condition at the time of the sale may be in jeopardy.

 

[BC]

I will have to disagree with the others. This can be a good deal for you or it can be like the others have said. You need yo have an understanding about feed and condition on cattle. If he takes good care of them and only works them once a week or so, I see no problems.

He gets cattle to use and can claim them for ag exemption. You get cattle that will be gentle enough to drive up with a goatweed in your hand. If you use a horse on the rest of your place, you will want all your replacements to go through the process as they will never get out of a walk or trot around a horse.

 

[skyline]

I can't imagine taking them to a special sale after someone has been using them for cutting. They aren't going to put on or keep on weight if he runs them very much. I guess maybe you should talk to him about how often he's talking about using them, and is this a green horse? Is the horse going to be running with the cattle? I'm with the first posters.. if you're planning on selling the heifers, their condition at the time of the sale may be in jeopardy.

Just so you won't think that I'm looney for considering it... My friend would probably only use them about once every couple of weeks, if that often, to tune up his horse. He's not a pro trainer, only has 3 horses on his place - 1 of which he enters into occasional amateur cuttings, and he has a full time business (not farming or ranching). His horse is well seasoned, not a green horse in training. I doubt each individual heifer would be worked more than once every two weeks, if that often. He's very responsible and has as much concern for the welfare of animals as anyone I have ever met. My initial thought was that the close exposure of the heifers to the house, kids, horses, and yes, occasionally being pushed around a pen by one or two guys on horses would help to gentle the heifers, not harm them. He had 6 calves of his own last year that he used in this way and they stayed in fine condition throughout the time that he had them and they were all very gentle.

I do understand everyones concern about this part of the deal and I appreciate the advice that I'm getting.

 

[Howdyjabo]

If you know the guy and you have seen how he keeps stock I see no problem .Some cowboys on horses that I have seen- wouldn't know enough to pick out a calf thats starving let alone not gaining.

I keep animals(so far just sheep and goats) to train dogs on- its easier for me to keep fresh stock that way without having to go find them and then go find a market for them when they sour.To time consuming for just a few head-and not much profit.

My deal is they deliver and pickup- and I take no responsibility for them other than to give them good care. And I pay for everything (except a vet) while they are here.
They LOVE it-- it gets their breeding stock away from males till they mature; frees up land ;saves them money; and they come back in good shape and very docile.
I have people lined up to supply me.
I could charge but then I would have to take some financial responsibility(bad stuff can happen even with good care) and they all think their animals are worth more than they really are.