what is the underlying cause?

[txffamom]

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3wVkv9xQlfc

Just in you can't see the video, This is our momma cow, who is close to calving. She was limping terribly, with something going on with her back left leg/foot. Short version, vet said the only thing he can figure is a hairline fracture or deep bruise of the femur area. This was a week ago and she is doing better, but still limps at times or drags the foot.

She is 3 years old and otherwise healthy. We have done quite a bit of research this week and have some ideas, but this board is so knowledgable that we thought we would ask, what can cause this? Assuming she was head butted or twisted wrong, etc., I wouldn't think it normal for this to fracture a leg. What could be the underlying cause of fragility?

Side note. She is pulled up by the barn away from the herd and the milk thieves, and we are officially on calf watch.

She is normally on pasture and hay, has not had a diet change, there was no swelling, nothing in her hoof, no fever, breath smelled fine, poop was normal. About 4 hours after i took the video, she went down and didn't get back up for about 3 hours.

 

[slick4591]

Can't see the video as it's private.

 

[dun]

Thisclose to calving it's not unusual for them to have a pinched nerve in the hip from the way the calf is positioned. I wouldn;t get concerned until a day or 2 post calving if it isn;t better. Ours have alwasy gone away within a matter of hour or so after the calf is out.

 

[3waycross]

Thisclose to calving it's not unusual for them to have a pinched nerve in the hip from the way the calf is positioned. I wouldn;t get concerned until a day or 2 post calving if it isn;t better. Ours have alwasy gone away within a matter of hour or so after the calf is out.

What he said :nod:

I have one that does it every year!

 

[txffamom]

I think the video is public now.

According to the vet, the calf was in position to enter the birth canal, but was still fairly low in the abdomin.

 

[slick4591]

I'm going with pinched nerve also. Although they weren't that bad, I've had two come up with that limp just before calving.

 

[branguscowgirl]

I am agreeing with either diagnosis. I believe that the vet could be correct, because you have "seen improvement." But I also believe it could be a "pinched nerve" and the calf has moved and given her some relief. Will have to wait and see.

I have a heifer with a suspected "pinched nerve" that has been xrayed and had an ultrasound. She would collapse when she squated to urinate. Her coordination was way off in the back limbs, and kind of duck walks, as if not knowing where her feet are placed. It has taken 6mos. but has improved considerably.

Good luck and keep us posted!

 

[regolith]

It's quite possible for a fracture to result from a fall.
Every one I've seen has occurred on concrete, but cows slip all the time on pasture - on a dung pat, on a slope, fighting with each other, then there might be rabbit holes or the like.
For her to be walking around and 'improving' at this stage does not sound like a fracture, so hopefully the previous posters are correct and your vet is simply inexperienced.

Brangus; my experience is that it is five to six weeks minimum before any improvement is seen after a fracture; at that point it can be rapid. However that's a total of one calf plus personal experience of broken bones, everything else was shot within a few days of the injury.

 

[NC Liz 2]

I agree. A pinched nerve is certainly a possibility.
Here are two other possibilities.
1. The cow's pelvic ligaments have begun to relax in preparation for birth, which can cause her to limp.
2. She may have a calcium deficiency now that she has starting to produce milk, which can also cause her to limp, or easily become injured.

 

[3waycross]

Doesn't look like a leg injury to me.

 

[NC Liz 2]

Re:

Doesn't look like a leg injury to me.

Now that I can see her, I agree!
I give it an 80% chance the problem is a pelvic problem.

She may have tried to give birth and injured herself. ( possible twins )
I would have the vet back out and pull the calf ( S ).

Need more video from other side and from behind.

 

[Taurus]

Re:

Doesn't look like a leg injury to me.

She may have tried to give birth and injured herself. ( possible twins )
I would have the vet back out and pull the calf ( S ).

Need more video from other side and from behind.

:bs: are you kidding me? Have a vet back out and pull the calf? Serious? Like I said this before, why you are so concerned about other people's cattle when you do not cares about your own cattle?

 

[NC Liz 2]

Re:

are you kidding me?

Nope! I'm as serious as a heart attack as we have very little info/ history to go on.
Did you see the vulva flopping while she was walking and defecating?

Q. Do you actually own any cattle or are you just here to play the board jester?

 

[Taurus]

Re:

are you kidding me?

Nope! I'm as serious as a heart attack as we have very little info/ history to go on.
Did you see the vulva flopping while she was walking and defecating?

Q. Do you actually own any cattle or are you just here to play the board jester?

Yes I seen the video, quite normally for some cows when they gets closer to the calving day, doesn't mean you have to forcibly grabbing the calf out of her if she isn't ready to calving. No reason to do that.

Everyone in here knows I have actual cattle, unlike you.

 

[txffamom]

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwIvgx ... hwShIPh1Jw

Maybe the link will pull up a bit longer video. I have 45 seconds worth, but my phone is having a hard time uploading it, and it could very well be operator error.

I gave few details in hopes of getting a broader range of possibilities. As for her vulva, it has always been large, but is a bit floppier the closer she gets to calving. She had just stood up and was making an effort to join the herd. Her NOT getting up when I arrived is what set off my sensors that something wasn't right.

The vet palpated when was here last sunday. No pelvic issues, viable calf that is positioned to be born, but not in the birth canal and doesn't feel to be too large. The cow is otherwise healthy...take away the limp and she is fine. She still has a pronounced limp/drags the foot on occasion, but is much improved from the video. We began seeing improvement on Tuesday evening and she has continued to improve since then.

My inexperienced thoughts...assuming the vet is correct in his diagnosis of a hairline fracture or deep bruising in the area...could it be that she has lost vital nutrition due to the milk thieves, plus being in the last stage of pregnancy? While it sounds almost "normal" to see this, I can't wrap my head around it. If she is healthy, it should take more than a head butt, twist, fall to hairline fracture the femur.

Due to the lack of swelling, leg swinging normally, foot faced correctly when moving, her condition was baffling to the vet also.

 

[3waycross]

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwIvgxjujYBoJhwShIPh1Jw

Maybe the link will pull up a bit longer video. I have 45 seconds worth, but my phone is having a hard time uploading it, and it could very well be operator error.

I gave few details in hopes of getting a broader range of possibilities. As for her vulva, it has always been large, but is a bit floppier the closer she gets to calving. She had just stood up and was making an effort to join the herd. Her NOT getting up when I arrived is what set off my sensors that something wasn't right.

The vet palpated when was here last sunday. No pelvic issues, viable calf that is positioned to be born, but not in the birth canal and doesn't feel to be too large. The cow is otherwise healthy...take away the limp and she is fine. She still has a pronounced limp/drags the foot on occasion, but is much improved from the video. We began seeing improvement on Tuesday evening and she has continued to improve since then.

My inexperienced thoughts...assuming the vet is correct in his diagnosis of a hairline fracture or deep bruising in the area...could it be that she has lost vital nutrition due to the milk thieves, plus being in the last stage of pregnancy? While it sounds almost "normal" to see this, I can't wrap my head around it. If she is healthy, it should take more than a head butt, twist, fall to hairline fracture the femur.

Due to the lack of swelling, leg swinging normally, foot faced correctly when moving, her condition was baffling to the vet also.[/quote]

So he is baffled but still came up with a broken bone?.............that's one strange diagnosis, Gotta wonder is he using deductive reasoning or inductive reasoning.

 

[NC Liz 2]

Watch that video several more times, then tell me she is not in distress!!
Why do you think she is up walking, with all that pain? Because it feels good?
Where do you think she is going, to church?
If the owner can't give her an internal exam himself, then he needs to call a vet or someone else who can.
As this has been going on for a week, I wouldn't be surprised if the calf (s) is not already dead.

 

[txffamom]

I took his diagnosis of "hairline fracture or deep bruise" for what he said. He didn't say it is broken in half. He seemed to think there would be swelling if it was broken in half. Maybe it is just a deep bruise or maybe it is a hairline fracture. In either case, I wouldn't take this as "normal". Shouldn't she be a little tougher than that if she is otherwise healthy?

 

[branguscowgirl]

To answer your question, no. If another cow is aggressive enough with mounting or butting, they can hurt each other.

My bred cows will mount open cows or the heifers coming in. If an open cow mounted her, and her being heavy bred, it could have caused an injury. (Just a thought, if you have that going on.) I suspect that is how my cow was injured. She was being mounted by some pretty big cows. It just takes a wrong step.
If improving....possibly a pulled muscle?

Really with out the diagnostics, you can't be sure. That is why I did them on my cow. She is a potential Donor cow for me, so I needed to know.

 

[branguscowgirl]

So he is baffled but still came up with a broken bone?.............that's one strange diagnosis, Gotta wonder is he using deductive reasoning or inductive reasoning.

3way I am sure that you have known some pretty tuff guys that have walked around on a "hair line fracture" for a week. (Not displaced fracture.) Again, the vet can't be sure with out the diagnostics, so how could we possibly guess? :???: