What do you think

[HDRider]

Maybe it isn't enough to judge.. Time's a coming when I pull the trigger and something like this is what I'd want.

http://www.cattlerange.com/405C-AW/405C689-201.html

 

[HDRider]

Or would I be better served starting with these. Notice the age and price differences...

http://www.cattlerange.com/405C319-201/405C319-201.html

 

[Lazy M]

Despite the age difference, the second set look like better stock. The first group looks pretty plain and very thin. Those small calves shouldn't be drawing them down that badly; they're either hard keepers or they've been starved.

 

[cmf1]

Despite the age difference, the second set look like better stock. The first group looks pretty plain and very thin. Those small calves shouldn't be drawing them down that badly; they're either hard keepers or they've been starved.

And the second group should be bred back vs open on the first group.
Older but better, threes vs pairs, cheaper.
:2cents:

 

[HDRider]

Despite the age difference, the second set look like better stock. The first group looks pretty plain and very thin. Those small calves shouldn't be drawing them down that badly; they're either hard keepers or they've been starved.

And the second group should be bred back vs open on the first group.
Older but better, threes vs pairs, cheaper.
:2cents:

My bad on that. I should have posted something that was bred back. That is my intent at purchase.

The main point I am trying to get to, was age and cost. Black 3n1s are starting at $3K and go up from there. And as pointed out, they might not be all that robust.

Price is what drove us to get the Longhorns and putting a double polled, double black Limo on them.

The next purchase will be something more mainstream and hopefully long-term getting to a terminal herd of good black commercial cattle. I hope to have 125 mamma cows in five years. I plan to buy 10 3n1s every year for five years and retain (maybe) the heifers and selling the steers and then calling it fixed.

 

[cmf1]

From the outside looking in, if you've got black hides, or can raise black hides with a bull investment, you're in the catbird seat for this market.
Seems like if you want to buy in to black hide cows though, ROI might be a little short or at least longer term.?

 

[HDRider]

From the outside looking in, if you've got black hides, or can raise black hides with a bull investment, you're in the catbird seat for this market.
Seems like if you want to buy in to black hide cows though, ROI might be a little short or at least longer term.?

That's what I'm pondering.

Anxious to see what the LH's throw.

Cost of entry was pretty low there, and this market makes selling them rewarding.

 

[HDRider]

What would the second group throw if they are bred to a good Angus bull?

Black? Smokey, Yellow? Mix of all?

 

[cmf1]

Take somebody with more experience breeding black than I have.
With everything turning black I would guess that it's not too difficult to make them mostly black calves. Although I think the charolais woud be tough because of the diluter gene.?

I see examples like what you posted throughout cattle range, bulletins, etc.
Sure looks a lot cheaper to turn them than to buy them.
And many times it looks like less money buys much better non black stock.

 

[Dale L]

I would think you would get mostly smokey calves out of the second group bred t a black bull. We have two char angus crosses. One is 7/8 angus and 1/8 char. She is smoke colored and when bred to an angus bull still throws mostly smoke calves. One is 3/4 angus and 1/4 char and had her frst black calf this spring (she is 15-16 years old).

 

[cow pollinater]

The black cows are the better deal. They've got the rest of their lives in front of them, they won't need as much feed, and the calves are in high demand. If you like chars, buy the black cows and turn out a char bull. :lol:
Char calves will still sell well but the demand for light angus calves is so strong that a smaller black calf is worth the same as the bigger white calf and your inputs on the black calf are usually much lower.

 

[HDRider]

Green is my color, and I ain't talking about JDs.

I try to figure the angles and find one that works. Black 3n1s are expensive, but ROI rules. Ain't saying its right, but it seems to be a fact.

 

[insurman]

Not sure if you would get all black out of those Chars but with your Limo bull you would damn sure pound the scales.

 

[JWBrahman]

What would the second group throw if they are bred to a good Angus bull?

Black? Smokey, Yellow? Mix of all?

Yellow and YWF is usually the Charolais x Braford color. My guess would be the majority are black with some smokes.

 

[JWBrahman]

Take somebody with more experience breeding black than I have.
With everything turning black I would guess that it's not too difficult to make them mostly black calves. Although I think the charolais woud be tough because of the diluter gene.?

I see examples like what you posted throughout cattle range, bulletins, etc.
Sure looks a lot cheaper to turn them than to buy them.
And many times it looks like less money buys much better non black stock.

So you have been looking at the long-legged, skinny black heifers on cattlerange, too? haha What are you doing with those fat F1 heifers from your MG bull and Brahman cows?

 

[cmf1]

Take somebody with more experience breeding black than I have.
With everything turning black I would guess that it's not too difficult to make them mostly black calves. Although I think the charolais woud be tough because of the diluter gene.?

I see examples like what you posted throughout cattle range, bulletins, etc.
Sure looks a lot cheaper to turn them than to buy them.
And many times it looks like less money buys much better non black stock.

So you have been looking at the long-legged, skinny black heifers on cattlerange, too? haha What are you doing with those fat F1 heifers from your MG bull and Brahman cows?

Got two headed to Ms. For forage test/development at the end of this week.
Gotta find some good Brahman semen to cross the other way now as well.
Lotta homework to do.

 

[JWBrahman]

My 623 daughter is one of the more efficient Brahman I have seen. Always glad to take the road trip to D Bar Ranch in Erath once the pecan harvest is over.

 

[cmf1]

What do youknow about Imperator line?

 

[JWBrahman]

What do youknow about Imperator line?

He was one of the four bulls of the early 1924 importation that included Manso's sire. Those four bulls were pure Guzerat while most of the other importations at that time were mainly Guzerat x Gyr. His son's were used a lot at Hudgins. Emperor is the famous Imperator son that Doc Partin loaned to Edgar Hudgins. It was the first time a Florida bull was ever loaned to Texas. Aubrey Marceaux started the Brahman studies program at LSU with an Imperator son named King of Kaplan.

The breed moved to incorporate more Nelore in Brazil and the US to improve sheaths and for the smaller teat size. Nelore is the most "beef" type of the breeds used in the mix with the best grade and yield. With your Murray Greys I bet you would get the most hybrid vigor with pure Nelore semen from Texas.

 

[skyhightree1]

I personally like blk angus and sim angus so I have what the market likes .. If I did not have what the market wanted I would follow the green HD and get whatever brings the most $$$