Weighed my cattle his afternoon - calf % cow weights

[RD-Sam]

I would just keep the good cows that are producing good calves, no money out of pocket, no need to sell two to buy one, that may or may not end up being worth a flip. Then you have two good calves to sell next year at a good price, extra hay or not, that still equals profit vs. a potential disaster with a new cow. Take the sure bet!

 

[SRBeef]

I would just keep the good cows that are producing good calves, no money out of pocket, no need to sell two to buy one, that may or may not end up being worth a flip. Then you have two good calves to sell next year at a good price, extra hay or not, that still equals profit vs. a potential disaster with a new cow. Take the sure bet!

That is along the lines of my original thinking. Just buy some more hay and do not keep their heifer calves. Maybe I should flip a coin...

I will think about it a bit longer. There is a month yet before weaning and decision day.

Thank you all for your suggestions. Jim

 

[Douglas]

"As I read your numbers, if I keep #66 (1360lb) for 4 or 7 years then sell her for $1100 (maybe a bit high but possible) the return on this $100 difference per calf is 9% ??? That's not bad considering what savings in the bank are bringing these days. Is my interpretation correct?"

Not exactly because my calculation assume as cost of $1100 now for not selling, and a value at the end of the same amount. Since the 1100 at the end of 4 or 7 years is of less value (value of money) than the 1100 now.

I got very busy at work yesterday and today and forgot all about this thread. Try to explain better later this week. sorry.

 

[Douglas]

Let's try a comparison on two cows. I am showing carrying cost of the bigger cows at $100 less profit per calf. As long as the larger cow is producing a profitable calf and can be sold later at the same price as today the return on keeping the cow is ok at 10%. Selling the cow and investing in CD's would have a very low return, but no risk. The point I guess is that in a best case senario the larger cow is profitable, but is that return adequate for all the risk associated with keeping her. If the smaller cow produces the same size calf at a lower, the return 28% is much better for the risk of keeping her.
By not selling each cow as a cull you are basically investing that cull value to produce future calf income.

edit: Imagine three columns, i can't seem to change the format.


Return for Selling vs. Retaining Cow

Internal rate of return 10% 28%


Cow weight 1900 1300
cull price 0.55 0.55
Calf profit 100 200
Cull value 1045 715
Year
0 -1045 -715
1 100 200
2 100 200
3 100 200
4 100 200
5 100 200
6 100 200
7 1145 915

 

[SRBeef]

Douglas, Thank you for the explanation. As I understand it there is more risk with the big cows, less risk for the smaller cows and a better profit with the smaller cows. That is my gut feeling also. But as mentioned by others there are lots of different factors involved also. Cows and genetics are not as predictable as we would like. Thank you.

Jim

 

[Jake]

I tended to skip a lot of the 60 some posts but as far as whether or not to sell the inefficient large cows I don't see how you can afford to keep them around. I've gone around and around culling decisions with my grandfather over the years and if I cow is losing you money your better off not having her. That grass is better off not being eaten and the extra work and expense saved by ridding yourself of the unprofitable cow.

If a company had an entity that was losing money every year and they knew that it would continue to lose money and be inefficient they are going to cut the entity.

Only in agriculuture are people so hell-bent to hang onto losing propositions for sentimental and tradition's sake. If your truley in the business of making money you need to cut the inefficient unprofitable cows. You DON'T HAVE to buy one back in her place!!! That is another HUGE misconception with many producers. Wait until you can replace within the herd or are in a position to intelligently add to the herd.

 

[KMacGinley]

As evidenced by all of the approval you got on the other thread when you first brought this up, a lot of people really like that type of cow. I don't. They are like a boat anchor... Since a lot of people like that type and she is bred. Slap a $1500 price tag on her and sell her as bred to someone that appreciates great big fat inefficient cows that eat more than they are worth, but look great.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

I think what Jim is mulling over is - he has a cow that IS profitable - just not as profitable as his smaller cow. If he sells the big cow & replaces her - will the replacement fit into his management & be profitable??? Like someone said, you can ship her, sell her as a breeder, and NOT replace her.
Isn't cattle management fun?

 

[ALACOWMAN]

I think what Jim is mulling over is - he has a cow that IS profitable - just not as profitable as his smaller cow. If he sells the big cow & replaces her - will the replacement fit into his management & be profitable??? Like someone said, you can ship her, sell her as a breeder, and NOT replace her.
Isn't cattle management fun?

yep,, and a whole lot better than dealing with the public :cowboy:

 

[SRBeef]

I think what Jim is mulling over is - he has a cow that IS profitable - just not as profitable as his smaller cow. If he sells the big cow & replaces her - will the replacement fit into his management & be profitable??? Like someone said, you can ship her, sell her as a breeder, and NOT replace her.
Isn't cattle management fun?

Jeanne pretty much it the nail on the head. They are both profitable the 1360lb is more profitabLe. Selling and not replacing and just growing from within my herd is a possibility but very slow. I need the beef to sell and can't go with 2. Less calves. I think what I am going to do is to sell one of my two largest after weaning as a bred cow for 1500 as KMG suggests and purchase one smaller framed genetics and bred for spring calving registered Hereford heifer.

This way I don't lose any calves. Selling the cow should cover much of the cost of the heifer. If no bred buyers she can go as a cull. Then next fall after weaning I will do the same thing. Sure bringing in new outside heifers is a risk but if I buy them from the right source from people who know the genetics and epds and share my philosophy (grass) then I can gradually reduce size, improve my herd and keep up production.

Thanks again for all the suggestions and different points of view.

One other factor that could change the above plan is if any other females turn up open at preg check time at weaning. I will absolutely not keep any female who is not bred. I would keep a bred elephant another year and ship the open one. I have seen absolutely no signs of heat since putting T21 in with them in June so it is unlikeLy anyone is open but that could change the plan. Thanks again to all. Jim

 

[regenwether]

Sorry to bring this post back.
I saw this post a few weeks back. It has been a tremendous Harvest. This is the first rainy day I've had in three and a half weeks. I just have not had time to read or respond much here on CT. I have a little time now but have to get to the shop to fix :roll: .

The one question I've been waiting to see on this post is in regards to calf weaning wt. From my understanding the weaning wt. should be around 40% of the cows wt. I just don't see the 1500+lb. cow doing it year in and year out.

Now to my question. At what AGE should that calf be to reach that 40%. Time is money and so is WT. The end of the day we are paid wt minus this $5.00 corn :roll: . Also should that 40% involve creep? I'm sure the answer to that is no but creep can help that 40% without breaking the bank.

From the feedlot standpoint. I have no numbers to back myself but I feel those higher % weaning wt. cattle tend to be better gainers in the feedlot. A calf from a Heifer or 12+ yr. old cows as we know don't tend to not have the weaning wt. Those calve just don't seem to have the "push" in the feedlot.

 

[SRBeef]

Sorry to bring this post back.
I saw this post a few weeks back. It has been a tremendous Harvest. This is the first rainy day I've had in three and a half weeks. I just have not had time to read or respond much here on CT. I have a little time now but have to get to the shop to fix :roll: .

The one question I've been waiting to see on this post is in regards to calf weaning wt. From my understanding the weaning wt. should be around 40% of the cows wt. I just don't see the 1500+lb. cow doing it year in and year out.

Now to my question. At what AGE should that calf be to reach that 40%. Time is money and so is WT. The end of the day we are paid wt minus this $5.00 corn :roll: . Also should that 40% involve creep? I'm sure the answer to that is no but creep can help that 40% without breaking the bank.

From the feedlot standpoint. I have no numbers to back myself but I feel those higher % weaning wt. cattle tend to be better gainers in the feedlot. A calf from a Heifer or 12+ yr. old cows as we know don't tend to not have the weaning wt. Those calve just don't seem to have the "push" in the feedlot.

I have used the standard calf 205 day adjusted weaning weight to cow weight at weaning to determine that ratio. I would also think 40% is on the low end of acceptable. I am looking for 50%+ as my target. This is almost impossible with larger cows. With a 1500 lb cow 40% would be 600 lb calf weight and that is very attainable. No need to apologize for bring the thread up. Many folks have been focused on harvesting during this stretch of dry weather in the cornbelt. I think you should be able to reach at least 40% in Iowa on grass alone with no creep.

Jim

 

[novaman]

If you aren't weaning something close to 600 pounds at 205 days you have room for improvement in my opinion. I've been seeing most of my calves closer to 650-700 and my average cow weight is around 1350.