Weighed my cattle his afternoon - calf % cow weights

[SRBeef]

Thank you all for your comments.

As I mentioned above, I rotated my herd to a fresh paddock today. The weather continues to be great harvest weather, an amazing stretch of beautiful cool fall days in Wisconsin. What is also unusual is that we had one or two nights that were at or near freezing. The leaves are turning as they do this time of year but the grass is still growing.

This paddock has a good mix of the clover I interseeded also. So I am trying to get as much grazing in as possible before having to feed hay. Short rotations. Since I still have grass I am going to delay weaning for another month but with big calves on them these cows and the calves are going through a lot of groceries every day. Just a Mineralyx tub out and salt as the only supplements.

Here are two pictures of the two particular cows that I am talking about in the weight figures above. Not good pictures as the sun was going down but will give you an idea of what these two animals look like.

First my 1360 lb cow (#66) dam of the 770lb calf pictured in the original post in this thread.

Next the 1930 lb cow (#77) dam of the 650 lb calf discussed.

You can see the dilemma here - the 1930 lb cow looks good, good udder, has a nice 600-650lb 205 day calf unassisted every year, has the "depth", "capacity", etc that we are told to look for...but profit wise just is not there.

The first cow, #66 is a much lower frame size than #77 though it may be hard to tell from the picture. She is older but has a calf unassisted every year that always exceeds 50% of her weight. She slicks up early in the spring, has a great disposition... And this year a 770 lb calf with a 3.46 ADG since late May.

Thanks for the comments and feedback.

Doc I should give credit to the Cattlemax program for the numbers. Once you figure out how to use it there is an amazing amount of data there.

As far as finishing, I do have a different, non-conventional "finishing" system although they probably will never be what most of you think of as "finished". Mine go from grazing standing corn (with hay available) to the processor about April 15th, ready or not, so I can strip till and plant corn again in the same strips. I am trying to get their weights up as close to 1050 or 1100 as possible by mid April. Not quite there yet but getting closer. I am moving calving up a couple weeks for next spring.

One thing I have not seen so far is those "380 lb 205 day calves" referred to above.

FWIW. Jim

 

[MO_cows]

Jim - thank you for sharing your herd data! We can all learn along with you. Wish we had a scale. I use a tape to get calf weights most times.

Your 1900 pound cow doesn't look real tall, but she looks too big for her legs. Dang that's a lotta cow. From those numbers you have got some good ones there and your udders look good too, now don't take this wrong, but especially good for Herefords. Knowing what you know now, and keeping heifers from the right cows, you should have a premo herd in a few years. If I remember right most of yours aren't in the registry and that's too bad. That's the kind of numbers AHA needs to regain some of their market share.

 

[SRBeef]

...If I remember right most of yours aren't in the registry and that's too bad. That's the kind of numbers AHA needs to regain some of their market share.

There are pluses and minuses to starting out with little experience (but good neighbors and information here) and an assortment of hand-me-down local commercial cows. On the plus side I have accidentally ended up with a wide range of genetics which really lets you see the differences in animals. Another plus is these are relatively low cost cows to start with.

On the minus side is that none of my cows is registered so I have no idea what their breeding pedigree is nor are any of their offspring registerable. I used a rent a bull the first couple years but was fortunate to purchase a good Huth bull, now on my second one. I have one registered heifer I purchased last January and will probably register her offspring.

Here is a picture of my one registered female, a heifer from North Dakota now bred by T-21. She is in the foreground. My new Huth bull is in the background.

However this one registered open heifer cost more than three non registered bred commercial Hereford heifers I purchased locally.

In a freezer beef operation folks pay for the quality of the beef on their plate. They don't really care what color the hide was nor whether it was registered or not. But I do want to support the Hereford association and maybe slowly build a small group of registered Herefords.

For several reasons however I want to build my own closed herd. Maybe bring in a good bull every once in a while but mostly do-it-yourself, working from cows I know and have data on. It just takes time though. It seems like everything you do in cattle takes so long - not for the impatient.

I would strongly recommend a scale for anyone with cattle, especially cow/calf. You can buy a simple aluminum platform scale to put in an alley and simple head unit for around $1500 or less. I bought mine as a demo unit at a farm show.

Thank you for the kind words. Jim

edit: the branded registered heifer in the foreground of the picture above weighed 1205 lb and the bull in the background weighed 1530 lb.

 

[KNERSIE]

Jim, send me an e-mail there is something I want to show you.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Jim - those are GREAT weights!! Your bull did a great job & yes, good grass can't be beat :banana:
But, the poor WW ratio on your big cow should tell you that she is taking care of herself - not her calf. Meaning, she is NOT producing enough quality milk. You can have a little cow with poor milk production just as easily as a big cow. This one cow doesn't make all heavy wt cows poor producers.
Your "small" cows are just right for your operation.
I can't say my cows wean 65% of their body weight :shock: Hadn't heard of adjusting the cows BCS for WW %. We don't weigh our cows in the fall until later in the fall (around Nov 1), so they have put on a lot of weight since their calves have been weaned for nearly 60 days. Interesting.
Good job!!! cattle & grasses look great. We, also, have been fortunate to have awesome grass/clover growth. We have similar climates.

 

[Brandonm22]

One thing I have not seen so far is those "380 lb 205 day calves" referred to above.

FWIW. Jim

You raise enough cows long enough and you will eventually get that cow that brings in the dink that trails the rest of the herd by a bunch.....Sell the both of them at the stockyard is my advice. Don't retain ownership. Don't give the cow a second chance to do it again.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

the only delimma i see is yourself,,, and the folks advising you to sell her...

 

[SRBeef]

Harley, email sent. Jeanne & Idaman, I can see the LOGIC to adjusting calf weaning wt ratio for cow BCS but I did not think most breeders would sell a cow at BCS 3. It doesn't seem like letting a 775 lb cow wean a 530 lb or so calf at BCS 3 is a good practice if you want to keep a cow around and healthy for a reasonable lifespan.

Alacowman, I agree and am not planning on selling this cow, I just will not keep any heifers from her. As good as she looks, that is not the "direction" I need to go for profitability. I have very limited land and am looking at producing the most pounds of freezer beef each year & net profit I can per pasture acre. 1900 lb cows are not the way to go. I think a herd of 1360 lb cows like #66 205-day weaning over 50% of their actual weight at weaning will give me more beef per pasture acre than a herd of 1930lb cows.

Thanks all for the comments. Jim

 

[ANAZAZI]

Thanks for this thread! I read it with great interest, because I have similar issues at home.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Jim - not sure if you misunderstood my comments. I don't adjust for BCS - never even heard of it - just thought it was "interesting".
I do not agree with letting any cow get to a BCS of 3. If you can't/won't suppliment the cow, her calf should have been weaned. Maybe she was bred back on time & will recoup her condition in time for next calf - MAYBE - not what I would plan on. Sorry - not a Pharo fan.

 

[Stocker Steve]

There are pluses and minuses to starting out with little experience (but good neighbors and information here) and an assortment of hand-me-down local commercial cows. On the plus side I have accidentally ended up with a wide range of genetics which really lets you see the differences in animals. Another plus is these are relatively low cost cows to start with.

What would it cost you to trade the big cow for an efficient commercial cow?

 

[SRBeef]

There are pluses and minuses to starting out with little experience (but good neighbors and information here) and an assortment of hand-me-down local commercial cows. On the plus side I have accidentally ended up with a wide range of genetics which really lets you see the differences in animals. Another plus is these are relatively low cost cows to start with.

What would it cost you to trade the big cow for an efficient commercial cow?

Steve, I guess it would depend on how you sold her. In the spring with a calf at her side, good looking pairs sell for $900, bred as a three-fer maybe $1200-1300. But the problem is what am I going to replace her with? Any cow you buy is a bit of a gamble, especially commercial. Better the cow you know than bringing in one you know nothing about. And folks don't generally sell their best, most efficient, young commercial cows.

77 may be large but she produces a good calf unassisted every year, is very docile and a couple other good traits. So I am going to keep her but not heifers from her and a couple other cows above about 1650 lb and gradually reduce my average cow size down using mostly my own cow genetics and a good smaller frame bull every now and then.

Jim

 

[novaman]

I can understand your wanting to keep the big ole girl but if it were my herd she would be gone. I would keep an extra replacement heifer if need be but you could sell a 1900 pound cow for around $1100 going for slaughter! You won't convince me that you won't be coming out further ahead by pocketing that money and having one less animal on the place until a replacement can be developed to fill her spot.

 

[Idaman]

I can understand your wanting to keep the big ole girl but if it were my herd she would be gone. I would keep an extra replacement heifer if need be but you could sell a 1900 pound cow for around $1100 going for slaughter! You won't convince me that you won't be coming out further ahead by pocketing that money and having one less animal on the place until a replacement can be developed to fill her spot.

I agree very much. My point has always been that you should be able to replace that 1930 lb. cow with 1.6 1200 lb. cows. Now with even a 50% cow/calf weight ratio look how much you have gained. That 1930 lb. cow would have to wean a 960 lb. calf to equal the 1.6 1200's at 50%.

 

[Brandonm22]

I can understand your wanting to keep the big ole girl but if it were my herd she would be gone. I would keep an extra replacement heifer if need be but you could sell a 1900 pound cow for around $1100 going for slaughter! You won't convince me that you won't be coming out further ahead by pocketing that money and having one less animal on the place until a replacement can be developed to fill her spot.

I think you hit it on the barrelhead there. $1100 PLUS the 600 lb calf (~$1.20 a lb in this market) is $1820 to go cow shopping with. She will bring that by the lb and preg checked she could bring better than that. I don't know about SRBeef; but there is a registered heifer or cow out there somewhere that I like better than the 1900 lber and he will save $50-80 by not having to feed that battle tank this winter.

 

[SRBeef]

I can understand your wanting to keep the big ole girl but if it were my herd she would be gone. I would keep an extra replacement heifer if need be but you could sell a 1900 pound cow for around $1100 going for slaughter! You won't convince me that you won't be coming out further ahead by pocketing that money and having one less animal on the place until a replacement can be developed to fill her spot.

I think you hit it on the barrelhead there. $1100 PLUS the 600 lb calf (~$1.20 a lb in this market) is $1820 to go cow shopping with. She will bring that by the lb and preg checked she could bring better than that. I don't know about SRBeef; but there is a registered heifer or cow out there somewhere that I like better than the 1900 lber and he will save $50-80 by not having to feed that battle tank this winter.

One of the things I like about this group is that you get me thinking. I keep forgetting cull cow prices are pretty good especially for a solid big cow like 77. I sure like the idea of not having to keep her stoked with purchased hay all winter. Maybe at weaning 77 and a couple other battle wagons take a ride in the trailer. Selling two or three of my largest cows would also let me rationalize buying a bred registered heifer to the wife... I tell her my midlife crisis at least involves Herefords and not blondes. Thank you all. That makes sense. Jim

 

[RD-Sam]

If you weren't so far away I would like to have that big cow!

 

[cattleman99]

That big cow is worth keeping because she's the one your neighbors are going to be salivating over. What a lot of people don't realize is that just because a cow is smaller framed doesn't make her more efficient or better. If she's a pencil gut she's still no good no matter what the size and some of these so called efficient cows aren't doing the cattle industry very much good. You have to raise cattle for your environment and what will make you money but if you just chase the fads and make them too small it's a lot harder to make em big again than make em small.

 

[Brandonm22]

That big cow is worth keeping because she's the one your neighbors are going to be salivating over. What a lot of people don't realize is that just because a cow is smaller framed doesn't make her more efficient or better.

No we KNOW she is NOT more efficient because Jim has weighed her, her calves, and compared them and her to her contemporarys performance.

 

[cattleman99]

That big cow is worth keeping because she's the one your neighbors are going to be salivating over. What a lot of people don't realize is that just because a cow is smaller framed doesn't make her more efficient or better.

No we KNOW she is NOT more efficient because Jim has weighed her, her calves, and compared them and her to her contemporarys performance.

Sure you know on this particular cow but more often than not my biggest cows wean the biggest calves and the smallest cows generally wean the smallest. Of course there are always exceptions to the rule. I've sold 2 bulls in the last two weeks which is very unusual for this time of the year. Can't remember the last time I sold one in the fall. I generally sell them all March through early June. Both guys were old customers who hadn't bought from me the past 3 and 4 years as they wanted to try smaller framed cattle and told me mine were too big. They both just sold their calves in the past month and are going back to larger framed bulls and wanted to get the June program long yearlings before they started getting picked over.