Weaning without meds

[Ebenezer]

I like to ask the non-vaccine folks if they get tetanus boosters and shots for their children?

If you sell cattle or your cattle get co-mingled after you sell them and you are willing to stand behind them, the vaccines will keep them alive when exposed to other locations and disease onslaughts even if your farm or ranch are clean and pristine. We have blackleg here so it is a need rather than a luxury. Oddly it is worse across the ridge with another stream that touches that land. Lepto is a big deal in hot and humid areas with wildlife so it is a need here. We can go on down the list. Liver flukes, if you are in an area, are a need rather than a want to treat. Wormer is an option and folks deal with it differently. I see little effects of worming except in 2 YO heifers with calves. I worm nothing over 3 YO. Same for minerals. Your cattle might live to load on the truck but will they live to a useful end. Cattle from our area with compromised mineral and vitamin status were documented as high risk mortality. The same minerals make them work better on the farm so it is a win-win.

Somewhere along the line we all have an obligation to do right and make a positive impact on whatever industry we are a part of.

 

[Redgully]

Never vaccinate anything here. My vet said vaccinating is like having a firetruck, you really don't need it until there is a fire and then it's too late.....he reckons I'm going to burn one day....

Are you serious?

Yep, weve had cattle here for near on fifty years, up to 30 breeders but now down to eight. Lost one calf in that time, just found it dead about 30 years ago. Lost three calves during calving and two of those were since going purebred in the last three years. And only ever lost one cow and she was a fully vaccinated and wormed cow i bought. Our area is free of a lot of diseases and no liver fluke here. I try and rotate paddocks at intervals to prevent worms but do worm when things get tough. Many cattle producers around here don't vaccinate.

 

[76 Bar]

The pros and cons of vaccinating are multifaceted. One point is certain...if your cattle/calves are destined to be shipped out of your environs and you wish to establish a reputation for healthy cattle capable of fending off disease challenges with a minimum death loss, a comprehensive vaccination program is in order.

 

[76 Bar]

Ebenezer beat me to the punch & summed it up far better than I. :tiphat:

 

[snoopdog]

Do you have property /car insurance? I do , never made a claim yet. I know plenty that don't vaccinate, I do. My neighbor doesn't.

 

[wbvs58]

"My calves are all vaccinated" is a pretty big blanket statement and varies from the basic Clostridial vaccines through to the whole box and dice that Brightt Raven, Ron administers. Ron's vaccine regime would give them a good start if they were going into a feedlot. The Clostridial only regime would be of no help. So it really needs to be defined what they are getting done for to be able to judge the benefit,

Ken

 

[farmerjan]

We do minimal vaccines. Blackleg and lepto, tetanus to bull calves when banded most times. Have done all the pinkeye, IBR PI3 etc and so on. But got away from anything that is modified live virus due to having to worry about pregnancy etc. So now it is blackleg to all cows and calves, lepto at preg check. Have quit the pinkeye, had worse cases several years with the vaccine than not so just said no more. We do bangs vaccinate all females retained for replacements. Partially so that they are eligible for shipment to any area that it might be a problem and because I never know who I might be milking for house consumption. Plus the tatoo and ID needed now for anything that even remotely looks to have some dairy in it. So we just do all replacement heifers.
We do some worming. Any bought/new to us cows get wormed, blacklegged and lepto through the chute. Calves that are kept usually get a worming. Sometimes a cow will get a worming if thin at preg check. We use DE in our mineral and it seems to help. Plus we try to rotate cows on pastures to help cut down on worms.

Since we mostly sell off the cows, weaning is not important, but in the past we have sold with calves following the different BQA requirements. Since we have gotten away from MLV vaccines, ours won't qualify anymore. Have not seen enough of a premium to offset the nearly double selling cost at the special graded sales. We have a monthly graded sale here that requirements are minimal, and have benefited with the red and char calves. But the black calves do as good at our local barn so just can't justify the added cost, stress, and time involved. Honestly, saying a calf has had all his vaccinations is meaningless unless there is a detailed list of what/when/where/manufacturer etc. We cannot get the premium here. Most calves are shipped to backgrounders who do full vaccinations, that is their business. We have alot of small beef cattle people here; 10-50 cows, and you cannot get the premium for small lots. There are several organizations trying to get into load lots, but I am just not fully convinced that with our operation, it is worth all the extra work.

 

[gcreekrch]

I like to ask the non-vaccine folks if they get tetanus boosters and shots for their children?

If you sell cattle or your cattle get co-mingled after you sell them and you are willing to stand behind them, the vaccines will keep them alive when exposed to other locations and disease onslaughts even if your farm or ranch are clean and pristine. We have blackleg here so it is a need rather than a luxury. Oddly it is worse across the ridge with another stream that touches that land. Lepto is a big deal in hot and humid areas with wildlife so it is a need here. We can go on down the list. Liver flukes, if you are in an area, are a need rather than a want to treat. Wormer is an option and folks deal with it differently. I see little effects of worming except in 2 YO heifers with calves. I worm nothing over 3 YO. Same for minerals. Your cattle might live to load on the truck but will they live to a useful end. Cattle from our area with compromised mineral and vitamin status were documented as high risk mortality. The same minerals make them work better on the farm so it is a win-win.

Somewhere along the line we all have an obligation to do right and make a positive impact on whatever industry we are a part of.

In the area our sale barns operate in most of those who don't vaccinate, don't brand or dehorn either. Most make an attempt to band even if they miss one or both. I know consignors are asked if and what vaccines are used on feeder and breeder cattle. If the box for vaccinations is empty on the sale listings those cattle are automatically discounted a dime or more.
One thing about not branding, it makes it harder to trace those cattle back so they can be discounted more next year to pay for the deads you bought this year.

The pairs we just brought home yesterday were worked today. Full vaccination protocol and the group of 7 Dexter cows were all given Draxxin too. Cost was $50.36 per pair. Still cheaper than losing any one of the group.

 

[Stocker Steve]

The question was about weaning (home raised calves) w/o vaccine. If you are a good stockman - - you do not need vaccine for that. If your not sure about stockmanship - - then get the pistol syringes out.

Selling calves for a premium is a different question. Moving calves to a feedlot is a different question. Buying in sales barn bargains is a different question.

 

[alisonb]

"That is how you select animals that fit your management practices, cull the ones that don't work out. Simple cow man logic."

Am I to understand that your management practices do not include vaccinating or deworming?

BTW - Which 'simple' would you be referring to?

There is an Ivomec advert that says "Invest a little, gain a lot".

Wow, I don't know what to say. Make a simple comment on a post and it gets it twisted out of shape.

Not being nasty...just trying to understand your management practices ;-)

 

[gcreekrch]

The question was about weaning (home raised calves) w/o vaccine. If you are a good stockman - - you do not need vaccine for that. If your not sure about stockmanship - - then get the pistol syringes out.

Selling calves for a premium is a different question. Moving calves to a feedlot is a different question. Buying in sales barn bargains is a different question.

They are still going to get sold at some point, a "good stockman" would cover all the bases to minimalize losses and/or time and antibiotic use when they start getting sick in inclement weather.

There was a time that BRD related problems were rare. Not so the case any more considering how far and how often cattle are moved. Birds carry problems too.

 

[Aaron]

Sure appreciate you guys that don't vaccinate being so thoughtful to make room for my animals in the feedlot when the mortalities start mounting on yours.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

I vaccinate everything. Calves have had 2 sets prior to weaning and then get another set after.
This reminds me of the measles outbreak in USA. Un-vaccinated children & un-vaccinated illegals.

 

[Brute 23]

Have been weaning every thing with out meds my whole life... never lost one yet. Our cattle get a little wormer now and the but that's it.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Actually this title is weaning without MEDS. Did you actually MEAN vaccinations or everything and anything like antibiotics?

 

[Aaron]

Actually this title is weaning without MEDS. Did you actually MEAN vaccinations or everything and anything like antibiotics?

Does anyone on here wean without giving any vaccines? Just curious

OP was about vaccines.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

I stand corrected!! Thanks.