Weaning on shipping day?

[mnmtranching]

Mostly what I'm saying is, precondition in a way that pays you, not the feedlot. Those guys aren't out to do you any favors, their out to buy as cheap as possible. They know very well you may need $1.20 to break even, but will go home happy if they get your calves for a buck.

I also believe the bacterias and viruses are prevalent every where
"more at the sale barn" It's the stress on calves that causes problems, all it takes is one sick and their all sick.

I'm saying if your going through the trouble of preconditioning calves do it for at least 2 months.

Unless of course you have some other agreement with buyers.

 

[ALX.]

I also believe the bacterias and viruses are prevalent every where
"more at the sale barn" It's the stress on calves that causes problems, all it takes is one sick and their all sick.

I agree with what your saying, but if you put yourself in the buyers shoes, and look at what you are saying here, would it not be nice to know they've been through the weaning, were vaccd and needled for shipping fever, and are gonna be looking for a bunk when you unload them?

Somebody does have to pay for that, and I don't know what the answer is in your area. Around here it's have your calves ready for the pre conditioned sales.

 

[ArrowHBrand]

Now I am not going to start or continue an argument, but this is what I think and what works for me. We will wean and precondition for atleast a month, sometimes longer, before selling our calves. However, we take them to special sales so we can recoop the feed costs from preweaning. Around my area they have sales for preweaned calves and sales called green tag sales where the calf is weaned, on feed for so many days, vacc'd, dehorned, etc. there is a list of prerequisites. For us we always have chores to do so feeding more calves doesn't really crimp the clock, but I wouldn't prewean if it didn't pay for the cow/calf producer. If there isn't a way to get a premium for your calves than I wouldn't prewean. That feedlot operator isn't looking out for your own good, you need to do that. If it pays to wean when the truck gets there, do it. On the other hand I can guarantee it that when your just weaned calves go into the sale ring that any stockyard guy is going to be able to tell that they have just been weaned and will pay less for them. It all comes down to how much time do you have and what is your time worth.

 

[WAguy]

Freshly weaned calves right off the cow that don't know how to eat feed.................... the stress is off the charts.

I'm not a serious producer like you all, but I've associated with a feedlot operator friend. Has a nice dead pile going most of the time. Has caused me to read and reflect on some of this.

I don't think most people can relate to the stresses on a calf. We understand what is going on when we ship and process, but the calf sure as heck doesn't. As far as they're concerned every moment could be their last – scared to death for days.

Years ago I was reading the Merck Veterinary Manual and the author was listing the stresses – separate from mama, run through chutes, put on a strange truck, haul long distances, get shots/tags, troughs and feed they don't understand. All the time being mixed and mingled with the social stresses of working out pecking orders. The stress causes cortisol release which is an immune suppressant. Along with not eating, very hard to resist disease. Bad time to vaccinate when the immune system isn't working.

Anyway, I remember the author's statement that we shouldn't wonder why some get sick and die, but we should ask how it is possible that any of them live.

I guess the idea of preconditioning is to spread out the stresses so they don't overwhelm the immune system.

I'm actually surprised that animal rights groups haven't forced better treatment of calves. Maybe the beef industry should force everyone to do it so all are on a level playing field.

 

[Brute 23]

I'm actually surprised that animal rights groups haven't forced better treatment of calves. Maybe the beef industry should force everyone to do it so all are on a level playing field.

Then they wont pay more for those who do it. That will be another thing to add to the list that is cutting into profit.

AND I am going to pretend like the first sentense isn't there. :shock:

 

[dun]

Maybe the beef industry should force everyone to do it so all are on a level playing field.

Now there's some one with a sense of humor. Can't even get prople to sign up for a premisses id and some one is going to tell them how to raise their calves.

 

[msscamp]

Freshly weaned calves right off the cow that don't know how to eat feed.................... the stress is off the charts.

I'm not a serious producer like you all......

Then perhaps you should not be commenting on things you don't have any experience with.

I don't think most people can relate to the stresses on a calf. We understand what is going on when we ship and process, but the calf sure as heck doesn't. As far as they're concerned every moment could be their last – scared to death for days.

I think you're dead wrong! Most "serious producer's", to quote you, fully understand the stress level of the calves and take the appropriate steps to reduce it whenever, and where ever possible.

Years ago I was reading the Merck Veterinary Manual and the author was listing the stresses – separate from mama, run through chutes, put on a strange truck, haul long distances, get shots/tags, troughs and feed they don't understand. All the time being mixed and mingled with the social stresses of working out pecking orders. The stress causes cortisol release which is an immune suppressant. Along with not eating, very hard to resist disease. Bad time to vaccinate when the immune system isn't working.

No kidding! :roll:

Anyway, I remember the author's statement that we shouldn't wonder why some get sick and die, but we should ask how it is possible that any of them live.

I guess the idea of preconditioning is to spread out the stresses so they don't overwhelm the immune system.

I'm actually surprised that animal rights groups haven't forced better treatment of calves. Maybe the beef industry should force everyone to do it so all are on a level playing field.

I believe you'll find that the mere mention of 'animal rights groups' is very unpopular in most agriculture situations, mainly because those groups don't have a flipping clue what they are talking about. As far as the beef industry goes - there is no such thing as a 'level playing field' because there are too many variables. Things such as location, markets, circumstances, quality, color, weight, class, different types of operation, number of cattle, as well as a few other things I'm undoubtedly forgetting, to ever provide a 'level playing field'. What works in my area may or may not work in your area, or in another area.

 

[dun]

The stress causes cortisol release

From the commercials I've seen I thought that stuff caused potbellys

 

[Limomike]

[Freshly weaned calves right off the cow that don't know how to eat feed.................... the stress is off the charts. ]

All my calves know how to eat feed from the time they are able to do so. So when they are "freshly weaned" its not like they are going to be stressed when they get to another feed trough.

 

[BC]

I know the backgrounders always say that they prefer the calves to be preconditioned, but I don't think that they pay enough of a premium to make that worthwhile. I also guess it depends on how you are set up for feeding them. I don't feed any grain. So I'm not well set up to precondition my calves and so I never have because the expense for me to set that up would take quite awhile to make back. My brother, who is set up to feed grain, has tried preconditioning before. I think its a coin flip whether he makes money on it and I think when you figure in his time, its probably a losing venture. The upside is that at least when I have replacement heifers that I want to keep, I've got a place to send them that doesn't charge me too much for feeding them. ;-)

Two things - 1)How much premium is enough? In my area, the NETBIO sale at Sulphur Springs regularly sees $5 to $7 per cwt. premiums over the same quality calves sold at sales that same week. Next sale is September 19 and can be seen over the internet.
2.) If you keep back replacement heifers you are already in the backgrounding or preconditioning business. Just treat your steers and feeder heifers the same as you would the replacement heifers. A fat bloomy calf at the sale barn is a calf looking for problems. People are always asking what do the buyers want? Well they want calves that have hardened up and got the bawl out of them and have had the upper resporatory shots to prevent BVD,BRSV, PI3, etc.

 

[sjr725]

Way up here we don't specifically "pre-condition" but since we calve early (Jan-Feb) then send the cows & calves to the mountains for the summer, by the time we bring them home in early October, they are around 9 mo old and most have been weaned by momma already or darn close to it. We'll bring them home and sort them out and ship them. We've been selling to the same buyer for almost 20 years and we'll call and let him know when we'll be bringing them home and he'll send the trucks. Calves will have been totally separated from momma for a couple of days, but at their ages it's not really an adjustment. We'll weigh them in groups when we sort them so we'll have a fair idea how they're going to go.

 

[Central Fl Cracker]

I have become friends with a cattle buyer that buys for Eastern and it makes no difference on what he bids preconditioned or not. There maybe some auction sales that sell preconditioned calves but not here.