Weaning on shipping day?

[dun]

I asked the barn owners had they followed up with buyers on the health. In 5 or 6 years no one has reported any major problems and buyers are coming back because of the health on the cattle.

The buyers of our comingled poploads that have been backrounded and vaccinated have said the same thing. Calves come off the trailers and walk straight to the bunks and start eating and none to ver y little sickness. They calim, remeber these are feedlot buyers, that it's worth roughly an extra $12 a head for the these calves.

 

[john250]

I think preconditioning means .15/lb or more premium over unweaned calves.
The barn where I sell has lots of "weaned on the truck" calves, and they sell cheap. The market may be strong or it may be weak, but my calves are always at or near the top.
The cost is a consideration, of course. My judgement is that I make money feeding those calves for a month or more. I'm putting the easiest pounds on those calves. A $4 bushel of corn is .07/lb. Four lbs/day ought to add a pound to a 500 lb calf. That is .28/lb and I'm going to get $1.10 for each pound at market. Of course there are other costs, but the other costs still leave a good margin. The only way I would not precondition is if I was stretched to breaking on labor.
Those critters leave here just lookin' for their next meal. When they come off the truck they go straight to the feed bunk. Feedlots like that. And the order buyers remember me.
I did have a group in the lot when BSE was discovered and the market crashed. On paper I took a huge hit. But I was able to wait out the market (I have a great banker) and I did well on the group. Just a couple months later than planned.

Note my tag line.

 

[dun]

Note my tag line.

Is that like "Subject to very tricky limitations!"?

 

[mnmtranching]

Last weeks auction had some 3000 new crop calves 90% right off the cow. Didn't make any difference in price. Most calves 4-5 hundred pounds.

I sell some right off the cow, use the money to buy feed for the rest...Best thing I believe would be to keep all calves over Winter and sell in March or April.

But with feed costs, hay shortage, money shortage, time shortage. Heck we're getting $600 + for those Spring calves right off the cow. 8)

 

[msscamp]

I'm wondering if we would get more money if we weaned 3 weeks prior to shipping day? What do some of you buyers think??

I'm not a buyer, but whether it would pay out for you depends on the number of calves you're talking about, your facilities and whether you're able to feed them out, and your location. When we ran 300-500 head of cattle it paid to truck wean, after the folks retired and the number of cattle dropped to 50 or 60 head, it paid to feed them out over the winter and sell in the spring.

 

[Limomike]

good point Msscamp. It does matter about the operation your running with. I keep feed out for the calves, and so even though mine are mostly truck weaned; they still know about heading to the trough to eat.
I will be taking some of my best steers I have had in years to the sale in two weeks. quite sure some of them are already pushing 700lbs.

 

[ALX.]

I will be taking some of my best steers I have had in years to the sale in two weeks. quite sure some of them are already pushing 700lbs.

Let us know how you do on those Mike. I think you'll well.

 

[john250]

Note my tag line.

Is that like "Subject to very tricky limitations!"?

Just covering my butt. The way I do it won't work for everyone. :lol:

 

[bigbull338]

I have been watching the NETBIO sales at the Sulphur Springs Livestock auction for a couple of years and their seems to be a $5 to $7 per cwt. premium on most cattle. The sure enough number 1 calves may not see as much premium as the upgradable calves. That maybe because some premium was already built into the price of the top calves.

At this sale, the calves are weaned a minimum of 45 days and have had 2 rounds of the required vaccinations. I asked the barn owners had they followed up with buyers on the health. In 5 or 6 years no one has reported any major problems and buyers are coming back because of the health on the cattle.

Check out this site for more information:
http://www.sslivestockauctions.com/netbio_feeder.asp

By the way, if it was not working, why Winnsboro Livestock Commission be starting a "preconditioned' sale with similar health requirements?

bc if you remember shannon used to work for fowler an pogue.an when he bought the winnsboro sale from mitchel.he started a dairy sale.an now its time for him to start the pre con calf sales.hence burning joe dons butt lolol.i know shannon.an i know that he will have a good pre con calf sale.but i dont think his barn can handle 2000 or 3000hd sales.

 

[3waycross]

Note my tag line.

Is that like "Subject to very tricky limitations!"?

Just covering my butt. The way I do it won't work for everyone. :lol:

I'm not trying to pull anybody's chain but this is the math I come up with on preconditioning.


first 10 days weight loss. Missin momma. learing to eat trough
second 10 days gain back the loss from first 10 days. Maybe!
next 25 days net weight gain.

I don't think you can look at this as 45 days of gain

How do your numbers jive with this thought. Have you done any interim weights, or just in and out.

 

[Gate Opener]

Ours are WOW (Weened on Wheels). We calve all year long so don't have alot going at one time. One time I kept a couple until they about a year old and it just didn't pay.

 

[Cattle Rack Rancher]

I know the backgrounders always say that they prefer the calves to be preconditioned, but I don't think that they pay enough of a premium to make that worthwhile. I also guess it depends on how you are set up for feeding them. I don't feed any grain. So I'm not well set up to precondition my calves and so I never have because the expense for me to set that up would take quite awhile to make back. My brother, who is set up to feed grain, has tried preconditioning before. I think its a coin flip whether he makes money on it and I think when you figure in his time, its probably a losing venture. The upside is that at least when I have replacement heifers that I want to keep, I've got a place to send them that doesn't charge me too much for feeding them. ;-)

 

[cmjust0]

Can't sell anything as preconditioned around here unless you're in the CPH-45 program.. (CPH-45 = Certified Preconditioned for Health/45 days weaned..)

I looked into it and you gotta complete a whole bunch of paperwork, keep special CPH-45 records, get your extension agent to sign documents saying that he/she's seen them drinking from tanks and eating from troughs, get your vet to sign saying that he/she has a "relationship" with you and your herd, get yourself BQA (Beef Quality Assurance) certified, get your premises registered, use specially purchased CPH45 ear tags or electronic tags, issue a $100 guarantee to the buyer that your heifers will be open and that you didn't miss a nut on any of your steers, blah blah blah....

We're not just talking about filling out an affidavit or telling somebody at the yard that they're weaned..

But check this out...

Here's a CPH Sale report for 6/21/07..

Here's a regular sale report for Monday 6/18/07..

Specifically, from the regular sale.. Feeder Steers M&L 1: 350-400 lbs 116.00-125.00; 400-450 lbs 111.00-120.00;

Now, from the CPH sale.. 401lbs avg, range of $110.00-$120.50, $118.81 avg price..

If you figure that those close to 400lbs at the regular sale brought between $116 and $120.............. Well, you do the math.

There are other weight ranges from the CPH sale that seem to have done a little better, but clearly there's no guarantee that the CPH45 program's gonna do anything for ya..

 

[ALX.]

There are other weight ranges from the CPH sale that seem to have done a little better, but clearly there's no guarantee that the CPH45 program's gonna do anything for ya..

It's too bad when folks are allowed to take a good idea, and something that should be good for our whole industry, and turn it into an exercise in control. Sounds like a bureaucratic mess.

Up here you take a half day course, receive binders full of forms to use largely at your discretion and get your feed supplier to sign that they don't sell feed with prohibited materials in it.

You are audited and then certified.

You are given stickers to put on you cattle when shipped, you can apply for a 3 dollar rebate on your RFID tags and now your cattle qualify for a bunch of sales where there will be plenty of buyers.

All through the Cattlemens Associations.
Edit - forgot to mention the free roast beef supper the day you take the course! :lol:

 

[MikeC]

I just finished reading the article "MANAGEMENT AT WEANING IS CRITICAL TO PROFITABILITY" and I was wondering your thoughts on weaning when you ship....for us, it works out good cuz the trucks come, we sort off the calves and that is it...I'm wondering if we would get more money if we weaned 3 weeks prior to shipping day? What do some of you buyers think??

You might not make much more money, short term, but if everyone vacc'ed their calves and preconditioned them, the loss in the feedyards and in transit would plummet.

Freshly weaned calves right off the cow that don't know how to eat feed.................... the stress is off the charts.

That would mean less risk by buyers in the long haul and more money in the pockets of producers overall.

Sometimes we might ought to do things that will improve the industry as a whole instead of thinking what is the cheapest and easiest.

 

[ALX.]

Sometimes we might ought to do things that will improve the industry as a whole instead of thinking what is the cheapest and easiest.

Or we may find ourselves dead in the water - in hogs or poultry I'll bet most of us wouldn't survive a year with our attitudes toward efficiency. And those folks are our competition.

 

[grubbie]

In this area it seems to be a wash (when we tried it, anyway). Keeping the calves and feeding involves a cost, and yes that cost was reimbursed at the sale barn. Normally we wean and ship the same day, but mostly for convenience. This way we are not having the extra chores to do for those 30 or 45 days. With our schedules that means a lot. Our calves do just as well as anyone else at the sale, sometimes better cause we have lots of grass and don't overgraze.

 

[mnmtranching]

Another way to look at it.

If you precondition calves it should be for at least 2 months.
That way you have some time to gain back what the calf will lose
for the first week or so off the cow.

Of course feedlots want you to precondition calves. Cause your doing the dirty work for them.

What difference does it make if you precondition or the feedlot preconditions? The stress on the calf is about the same. The calf is still going to do nothing much but bawl for 5 days.

The first thing the feedlot will do with incoming calves is run them through and give them vaccinations and antibodies. And medicated feed.

I think preconditioning is the way to go mostly. But keep the calves long enough so it works in your favor, not so much in the feedlots favor. Or sell right off the cow and let the feedlot take the risks.

 

[MikeC]

What difference does it make if you precondition or the feedlot preconditions? The stress on the calf is about the same. The calf is still going to do nothing much but bawl for 5 days.

Hmmmmmm. LOT'S of difference. When you Precondition weaned calves from your farm, you aren't introducing them to Bacterias and Viruses they haven't already been exposed to before they have the proper vacs.

Just because you give them a vac today doesn't mean they have built an immunity by tomorrow either.

Creeping calves for the last 2-4 weeks before weaning will help them through the process also.

Feedlots that buy calves that they KNOW WITHOUT A DOUBT have gone through a rigorous Preconditioning program don't vac them again. At least the ones I've dealt with don't.

When unpreconditioned calves are weaned on the trailer and shipped to the sale barn they are exposed to all sorts of problems with no immunities to protect them. Pure and simple.
They only know two things. Mama's teat and grass.......

Neither of those are available anymore.

 

[ALX.]

Of course feedlots want you to precondition calves. Cause your doing the dirty work for them.

Where do you draw the line on "dirty work"? Breed selection, breeding, calving, dehorning, castration, calf nutrition....

As a cow calf producer I think the very best things that you can do to produce a quality product are done in those last 45 days.

If you wean with as little stress as possible, vaccinate properly and initiate a good nutritional program for the calves and try to put together uniform calf groups of at least 30 - if there is a way to make decent profit - that is it.

There's all sorts of info out there to show mortality rates or gain ratios on hard weaned calves with no conditioning.

If the feedlots in your area are not willing to pay for that over other calves, then they are not running efficiently as well.