Veterinary Feed Directive

[regolith]

Rambling thoughts...
VFD only applies to antimicrobials mixed into feed... has no impact on injectible/topical/oral products. ONLY specific antimicrobials mixed in feed.
quote]

Forgive my ignorance but are you saying injectables as in penicillin and la200 and that type of stuff will be available as usual or require a prescript?

In general I would expect that the stricter controls will be coming your way... but it could take a long time, and you can fight it by arguing common sense for a while.
Antibiotics aren't available here without a vet prescription, and haven't been for some years now.

 

[True Grit Farms]

Rambling thoughts...
VFD only applies to antimicrobials mixed into feed... has no impact on injectible/topical/oral products. ONLY specific antimicrobials mixed in feed.
quote]

Forgive my ignorance but are you saying injectables as in penicillin and la200 and that type of stuff will be available as usual or require a prescript?

In general I would expect that the stricter controls will be coming your way... but it could take a long time, and you can fight it by arguing common sense for a while.
Antibiotics aren't available here without a vet prescription, and haven't been for some years now.

Our government is crooked and this is just one step in their scheme of things.

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

Break out the foil hats and watch out for the Black Choppers.

 

[dun]

Tomorrow we're going to deal put in by Vigertone about it. Our vet already told me not to worry about it cause he'll write the perscription for us.

 

[Jessica06]

The way I understand it, all medications meant to be added to drinking water will require a prescription (ie. sulfadimethoxine, etc...), instead of a VFD. I was confused about that until I read up on it a bit more the other day. The only feed we use that will be affected will be our mineral. I'm kinda dreading it because the year we thought we'd be smart and save a few bucks by using unmedicated mineral we quickly became semi-experts on footrot. We live in a place where it can take weeks for a few inches of rain to disappear. Which means more suffering cattle, and more treatments with expensive, higher powered antibiotics. About the only thing we use here is Draxxin. Seems counterproductive to me, but who am I to criticize those who know better?

I absolutely don't blame the vets for this. I sympathize with them and think a lot of them were blindsided about the same as everybody else. That's a lot of new liability that they're going to have to take on.

 

[wbvs58]

When you fellows sell your cattle do you have to declare anything that might be within a withholding period?

Do you worry about drug residues showing up in meat in your export markets?

Ken

 

[Black and Good]

Very Informative! Thanks Lucky P! B&G

 

[talltimber]

I went to a cattlemens appreciation dinner a while back, Purina reps were there, and they talked about it some. I think the only thing that will affect us is the ctc we add to the mineral in the summer. We don't add anything to what little we feed calves while they're here.

When you fellows sell your cattle do you have to declare anything that might be within a withholding period?

Do you worry about drug residues showing up in meat in your export markets?

Ken

It is illegal to sell anything while still within the withdrawal date, and if you have given them a couple doses close together, then I would double the time frame just to be sure. I've not heard of anyone getting gigged for that, but if pressed, I doubt it would be a pleasant experience.

 

[Margonme]

Rambling thoughts...
VFD only applies to antimicrobials mixed into feed... has no impact on injectible/topical/oral products. ONLY specific antimicrobials mixed in feed.

I attended a 3-hour session for veterinarians on the VFD last night, put on by Zoetis & Burkmann feeds. It was helpful, but there will continue to be new questions that pop up between now and when this thing takes effect on Jan 1... and well beyond that point.

I can promise you, there are very few, if any, veterinarians who are looking at this new government regulation as a 'cash-cow'... for most of those folks, it's just another government intrusion into their business, with a whole new set of paperwork that they have to keep on hand for the following two years, and they're open to FDA inspectors showing up to examine their records, unannounced, at any time.
I've spoken with several of my colleagues who've just said, "I'm not going to do it; I'll never write one. Period."
It was NOT a regulation requested by or driven by veterinarians... if you feel the need to point fingers... look at 'consumers'... and at folks (producers & veterinarians alike) who have misused/abused these products.
FDA claims that this reg is not intended to decrease use of antibiotics in feed... but to ensure that when they are used, that they are used correctly. Sounds good... but, they're from the government, and they're here to help us, right?

You can 'stockpile' all you want between now and 1 Jan 2017... but after that date, if you feed it without a valid VFD... you're not in compliance. FDA could potentially come down on you. Presenter last night made the analogy... you can grow and possess all the marijuana you want... but you can't smoke it without being in violation of the law...
First year or so, FDA says they're mainly gonna be 'educating' producers/veterinarians/distributors who are found to be in violation... unless you're committing fraud, in which case they'll nail your hide to the wall... but after that, they likely will get tougher on reinforcement.

Repeal? Not likely. At all.
A VFD will require, as its first point: a valid Veterinarian/Client/Patient Relationship (VCPR). A veterinarian following the 'letter of the law' will be required to have an actual knowledge of you, your animals, your facility/farm. If you don't already have a good working relationship with a veterinarian... you're going to have to develop one... If you don't have one... how much time is that veterinarian going to have to spend with you/on your farm to truly have that VCPR and to be able to write, distribute, file those VFDs... 'time' is that veterinarian's most limited commodity...somebody's gotta pay for that time... and it's gonna be the producer who needs that feed additive.
Additionally, veterinarians won't have 'carte blanche' to prescribe just anything... there are limitations on what antibiotics can be used in certain classes/species of animals (for example, NONE are approved for incorporation into feed for sheep/goats), what concentrations of any given drug can be mixed, how long it can be prescribed to be fed, what conditions it can be prescribed for... and some combinations of drugs are not allowed.

If you, as a producer, are accustomed to mixing your own feed with, say, Aureomycin at XX concentration, you may no longer be allowed to do so, if that concentration is not allowed by FDA... 'cause your vet cannot write a VFD for that level. Oh, and if you're mixing your own feed... FDA has access to you on two levels - both as the producer and as the distributor/manufacturer... and your paperwork had better be in order when that FDA inspector shows up.
And, let's say, if you routinely mix a feed with Aureomycin and Rumensin in it... that combination is not approved, and your vet cannot write a VFD for that. Etc., etc., etc.

Thanks.

Speaking for my operation, putting drugs in my feed is not a practice here. These regulations don't appear to concern me.

Many users on this forum say cattle especially cow and calf operations should not be using feeds in their operations. So the impact should be minimal. I have started setting up creep feed areas for nursing calves, that is my primary feed use. I give my cows treats probably more than I should but NEVER for the purpose of administering drugs!!!

I used IGR in Vitaferm this summer. That was my first administration of drugs via a consumable.

My point: Is this regulation being portrayed as a bigger issue than it IS with the exception of the impact on the Veterinarian practice?

 

[pdfangus]

pulled from Lucky P's post.

if you feel the need to point fingers... look at 'consumers'... and at folks (producers & veterinarians alike) who have misused/abused these products.

the warning signs have been out there for decades....we all knew it was coming sooner or later....

the issue is the fading efficacy of antibiotics in humans.

never mind that there is rampant misuse among the public both by citizens and physicians.

When it became common knowledge to the public that livestock producers( far less than 1 % of the population) were daily feeding antibiotics to livestock, who do you think will get the blame....

This is magnified by producers who do misuse antibiotics.......

decades ago testing was developed to monitor antibiotics in milk.....
it was developed to combat the real problem of having antibiotics in milk....
eventually the penalties got so severe when caught, that the problem has abated greatly.

If producers insist on doing it their own way and government be d____ed then there will be more and tougher regulations in the future which will extend to injectables.

Don't take pride in being a bad acter....don't contribute to the problem....use antibiotic properly ....get BQA certified...do what is right.....

If we do not....I foresee a time when the vet will have to administer antibiotics for you....

We have to remember that agriculture is less than 2% of the american population and when the consumer turns against you, you will not win....
neither will the consumer but they are too stupid to realize that....

 

[TexasBred]

The way I understand it, all medications meant to be added to drinking water will require a prescription (ie. sulfadimethoxine, etc...), instead of a VFD. I was confused about that until I read up on it a bit more the other day. The only feed we use that will be affected will be our mineral. I'm kinda dreading it because the year we thought we'd be smart and save a few bucks by using unmedicated mineral we quickly became semi-experts on footrot. We live in a place where it can take weeks for a few inches of rain to disappear. Which means more suffering cattle, and more treatments with expensive, higher powered antibiotics. About the only thing we use here is Draxxin. Seems counterproductive to me, but who am I to criticize those who know better?

I absolutely don't blame the vets for this. I sympathize with them and think a lot of them were blindsided about the same as everybody else. That's a lot of new liability that they're going to have to take on.

Find you a mineral with elevated levels of zinc in chelated form and iodine. Should help more with foot rot than most antibiotics. Not a cure but definitely a preventive.

This whole things seems like a waste of time and money to me. Antibiotics in feeds have never been a real problem. The problem is every Tom, Dick and Harry with a syringe and a few bottles of antibiotics using it so many times without knowing if the particular medication is even beneficial in treating the problem at hand and then using massive doses instead of recommended dosages. I must admit I've been guilty of this myself.

 

[dun]

This whole things seems like a waste of time and money to me. Antibiotics in feeds have never been a real problem. The problem is every Tom, Dick and Harry with a syringe and a few bottles of antibiotics using it so many times without knowing if the particular medication is even beneficial in treating the problem at hand and then using massive doses instead of recommended dosages.

Bears repeating!

 

[Jessica06]

The way I understand it, all medications meant to be added to drinking water will require a prescription (ie. sulfadimethoxine, etc...), instead of a VFD. I was confused about that until I read up on it a bit more the other day. The only feed we use that will be affected will be our mineral. I'm kinda dreading it because the year we thought we'd be smart and save a few bucks by using unmedicated mineral we quickly became semi-experts on footrot. We live in a place where it can take weeks for a few inches of rain to disappear. Which means more suffering cattle, and more treatments with expensive, higher powered antibiotics. About the only thing we use here is Draxxin. Seems counterproductive to me, but who am I to criticize those who know better?

I absolutely don't blame the vets for this. I sympathize with them and think a lot of them were blindsided about the same as everybody else. That's a lot of new liability that they're going to have to take on.

Find you a mineral with elevated levels of zinc in chelated form and iodine. Should help more with foot rot than most antibiotics. Not a cure but definitely a preventive.

This whole things seems like a waste of time and money to me. Antibiotics in feeds have never been a real problem. The problem is every Tom, Dick and Harry with a syringe and a few bottles of antibiotics using it so many times without knowing if the particular medication is even beneficial in treating the problem at hand and then using massive doses instead of recommended dosages. I must admit I've been guilty of this myself.

Thanks! I'll definitely look into it.

 

[Lucky_P]

The problem is every Tom, Dick and Harry with a syringe and a few bottles of antibiotics using it so many times without knowing if the particular medication is even beneficial in treating the problem at hand and then using massive doses instead of recommended dosages.

That, and physicians continuing to prescribe antibiotics to their patients for conditions, like the common cold, that don't warrant antimicrobial treatment... and human patients receiving antibiotics and not taking them according to direction and for the entirety of the prescribed course.

I often wonder how TD&H manage to get their hands on some of the stuff they're injecting... and if they got it from a veterinarian... why didn't that veterinarian take a few minutes to explain a little bit about mode of action, indications for use, appropriate dosages... and meat/milk withdrawal times. I wonder, but unfortunately, I think I know....

That said, I'd prefer to see TD&H giving massive, excessive dosages - so long as they adhere to an appropriate slaughter withdrawal time - rather than underdosing. For example... a 10 cc dose of Procaine Penicillin G... will give a therapeutic treatment level of drug in blood/tissue for 12 hours, for a 330 lb animal. It is not appropriate for a 1200 lb animal, and should almost never be given as a 1-time treatment.

 

[Workinonit Farm]

The problem is every Tom, Dick and Harry with a syringe and a few bottles of antibiotics using it so many times without knowing if the particular medication is even beneficial in treating the problem at hand and then using massive doses instead of recommended dosages.

That, and physicians continuing to prescribe antibiotics to their patients for conditions, like the common cold, that don't warrant antimicrobial treatment... and human patients receiving antibiotics and not taking them according to direction and for the entirety of the prescribed course.
quote]

:nod: :nod: :nod: :nod:

I agree with both the above statements. The 1st, I believe, has been one of the main reasons for needing "more powerful" antibiotics for animal ailments. The 2nd, I believe, has more to do with antibiotic resistance issues in humans.

I know several people who will "keep-back" some of their "pencilan" for "the next time I get sick", whenever they have been given a prescription for an antibiotic. They will stop taking it about the time they start to feel better. I have tried to tell them why they shouldn't do that, to no avail. :bang: :bang:

 

[greybeard]

I was at a feed store, sittin on a pallet of Purina medicated feed and looked at the label. It's already got a warning printed up on the label that effective Jan 2017 a vet's prescription will be needed to purchase and use that feed.
Stocker/grower with CTC