Vaccinate ?

[Isomade]

At the salebarns here they announce any vaccinations you have done. The vaccinated calves will sell for 10 cents more, weaned and vaccinated will 20 cents higher, yet there are still a lot of calves straight off the cow with no shots. It all depends on the individuals facilities, etc. But to not do it is leaving a lot of money on the table.

And even that would simply be on the "honor system" as there is no real way to prove "on sight" if they have or have not been vaccinated.

That is true, but if you brand your calves they know that it it very likely that they were vaccinated since they were obviously thru the squeeze.

 

[cypressfarms]

we dont vacc anything at all.an we rarely worm the cows or heifers.but im slowly changing the worming thing.thus trying to run the cows through the squeeze 2x a year.we do use some feed an protine tubs.90% of our cows dont know what feed sack is.

Bigbull, not picking on you in anyway, but your one of the few that admits to not vaccinating. So I have to ask: why not? I'm not trying to grill you or anyone else, but I really don't understand why someone wouldn't.

 

[curtis]

we dont vacc anything at all.an we rarely worm the cows or heifers.but im slowly changing the worming thing.thus trying to run the cows through the squeeze 2x a year.we do use some feed an protine tubs.90% of our cows dont know what feed sack is.

Bigbull, not picking on you in anyway, but your one of the few that admits to not vaccinating. So I have to ask: why not? I'm not trying to grill you or anyone else, but I really don't understand why someone wouldn't.

Very few vaccinate around here and run their bull year round . But, they have all kinds of problems. like cows and calves dieing all of a sudden and others gettin sick.
One guy told me that vaccinations destroyed the cows immune system, what a bunch of crock, the truth is he don't want to spend the time or money them. They don't have ear tags on most of their stock either.
I vaccinate spring and fall and worm 3 times a year. Spring Summer and fall.
I don't understand their thinking.

 

[houstoncutter]

they dock beefmaster an beefmaster cross calves anyway.

I have some beefmaster cows that I breed to an Angus plus bull and the resulting calves look pretty nice - black ofcourse - not too much ear and they dont get docked!

Take that same calf and sell it in Kansas City, on the same day and u will find that you are being docked for having Southern cattle....and it doesnt matter the amount of ear either....it could be a reg angus sold at your sale barn...same day calf in Kansas City or farther north and it will bring more money....So whether you want to admit it you are getting docked

 

[milkmaid]

The only people I know who do not vaccinate are the ones that are selling organic beef. That is the reason I don't sell organic beef, I like vaccinating my animals.

Last time I checked, organic folks could vaccinate. Some vaccinations are okay and some are not - and I believe there was a fairly lengthy withdrawal period - but they were allowed to vaccinate.

After all, what would they do in states where brucellosis vaccination is mandatory?

 

[bigbull338]

i know your not grilling me,you just want to know why.1.the labor to work cows an calves is very high.2.we used to work our dairy herd every year or so.an really didnt see much saving in doing so.plus we got some bad vaccine,that the manufactor knew was bad.an we ended up losing 15 or 20 cows.an we finally made them pay for most of the lose.an then we quit working the cows.3.its the old cows that get sick an give probs.not vaccing anything isnt poor or missmangement here.it just doesnt pay enough.i could tell you something else that doesnt work either.an is a ripp off but i wont.but heres a hint,the pre con calf sales arnt what they seem.

 

[Isomade]

i know your not grilling me,you just want to know why.1.the labor to work cows an calves is very high.2.we used to work our dairy herd every year or so.an really didnt see much saving in doing so.plus we got some bad vaccine,that the manufactor knew was bad.an we ended up losing 15 or 20 cows.an we finally made them pay for most of the lose.an then we quit working the cows.3.its the old cows that get sick an give probs.not vaccing anything isnt poor or missmangement here.it just doesnt pay enough.i could tell you something else that doesnt work either.an is a ripp off but i wont.but heres a hint,the pre con calf sales arnt what they seem.

Alright bigbull, you can't leave us hanging. What is your take on the pre con sales? And I have no opinion what so ever, as I have never been a part of one. I have been wondering about it though and would like to hear your take.

 

[bigbull338]

well you may not like my take,but here it is.i was talking to my neices bf the other day.an we got on the pre con sales,an the rules.an we both agreed that very few follow the rules.that are wean calves 45 days get emm on feed an hay,worm them an give then 2 sets of shots.they just wean on the trailer an put the tags in their ears.plus all the hay an feed you pump into them youd loose $20 a head.

 

[cypressfarms]

Take that same calf and sell it in Kansas City, on the same day and u will find that you are being docked for having Southern cattle....and it doesnt matter the amount of ear either....it could be a reg angus sold at your sale barn...same day calf in Kansas City or farther north and it will bring more money....So whether you want to admit it you are getting docked

B.S. like this is why I'm going more and more to securing contracts to supply beef to people/business', or a direct marketing approach. It's a total crock, of course. I hate middle men, and in our industry there are many. I'm able to cut out all of the middle men but the butcher. Hopefully within the next few years I'll have enough "contracts" to sell all of my calves directly.

 

[curtis]

well you may not like my take,but here it is.i was talking to my neices bf the other day.an we got on the pre con sales,an the rules.an we both agreed that very few follow the rules.that are wean calves 45 days get emm on feed an hay,worm them an give then 2 sets of shots.they just wean on the trailer an put the tags in their ears.plus all the hay an feed you pump into them youd loose $20 a head.

How do you know they don't follow the rules an what part does your nieces bf play in a Pre Con sale? :?
Just wondering, please explain :? :?

 

[bigbull338]

he has no part in the sales.we was just talking about them because they was going to have 1 here with 8000 pre conned calves.i have no facts to back what we was talking about.an i know if theres a loophole they will find it.an heres the deal you cant prove or dissprove that they followed all the sale rules.because you go get the taggs.an you tagg your own cattle.an they take the taggs word or proof that they followed the rules.

 

[kenny thomas]

In our preconditioned sale all the vaccines and tags are bought together. A record is kept by the producer as to when they were worked, lot # and experation date of the vaccine and wormer. At least they bought the stuff so surely they will use it. All the calves are inspected to see that they were weaned by the date to make them weaned 45 days. Many of them I work to make sure it is done.

 

[Isomade]

I have a friend who is a buyer. He claims they can tell by hair coat how long a calf has been weened. I darn sure can't.

 

[AllForage]

We do not vaccinate or deworm either. I stated it on two other threads and was dog piled on.

 

[bigbull338]

they know not to dog pile me,because i wont back up rarely at all.an im used to their ways.

 

[cypressfarms]

they know not to dog pile me,because i wont back up rarely at all.an im used to their ways.

I've never dog piled you, or come to think of it, many others. For those that don't vaccinate I just want to ask some legitimate questions. For example:

Why do you not vaccinate? Cost, your climate, too much trouble, you believe it's not worth it, etc.

If you do not vaccinate (or worm as was also stated on this thread) what is your weaning weights for your calves?

What percentage of your herd comes up open each year?

How big is your operation? 1-50 cows, 50-200, 200+?

I'm not trying to pile on bigbull, no need to get defensive. I'm trying to see if the people that don't vaccinate have some knowledge that I don't. That's the bottm line.

 

[djinwa]

From my work in the public health field, and some association with animal health, I know that many vaccinations aren't necessary. But sometimes it's easier to just give everything than to tailor protocols to risks for a particular area or producer.

The ideal test would be to vaccinate every other cow/calf coming through the chute and compile production data and disease/death incidence. Compare the vaccinated group against the unvaccinated in the same herd and the same conditions. You can't really compare production performance of one herd against another because of different management, feed, environment, etc. For example the question above about rates of non-pregnant cows in relation to vaccinations - the open cows could be due to other factors in a herd of unvaccinated cattle, like bull fertility problems.

Having a certain percent of the population vaccinated can prevent an epidemic from getting started. However, if a disease is pretty much eradicated, you reach a point where the benefits of vaccination are not worth the costs.

Disclaimer: Everything I said could be wrong.

 

[bigbull338]

they know not to dog pile me,because i wont back up rarely at all.an im used to their ways.

I've never dog piled you, or come to think of it, many others. For those that don't vaccinate I just want to ask some legitimate questions. For example:

Why do you not vaccinate? Cost, your climate, too much trouble, you believe it's not worth it, etc.

If you do not vaccinate (or worm as was also stated on this thread) what is your weaning weights for your calves?

What percentage of your herd comes up open each year?

How big is your operation? 1-50 cows, 50-200, 200+?

I'm not trying to pile on bigbull, no need to get defensive. I'm trying to see if the people that don't vaccinate have some knowledge that I don't. That's the bottm line.

1.no youve never dog piled me,never ment to imply you did.
2.its not worth the headache to vacc.i live in texas,not all that far from you.
3.the weaning weights very from 500 to 850 lbs.because we let the cows wean their calves.an we sell them 3 or 4 times a year.the bulk is sold in the winter.
4.we dont keep up with if the cows are open long.as long as they calve within a reasonable time frame.
5.we run between 70 an 100hd at any given time.an that includes cows heifers an calves.
6.an right now we have 2 bulls with the herd.

 

[AllForage]

they know not to dog pile me,because i wont back up rarely at all.an im used to their ways.

I haven't backed up either, but when they think they have wounded someone watch out.

 

[bigbull338]

well ive survived 4 yrs here at CT.an ive had my ups an downs here.but id keep coming back.an theres meny good people here.