Used milking machine wanted

[TexasJerseyMilker]

Daphne my first dairy cow and she was a calf that came from a dairy. She grew up to have little teeny milking machine teats, especially the hinds. In fact, I designed a brassier on her first lactation to try to get the calf to work the hinds and stretch them. Didn't work, still has two finger teats in the back.


I share milked, took a gallon a day from her the calf got the rest. I learned to make butter, ice cream and 7 kinds of cheese. My cholesterol levels went through the roof. Then I went to Oregon for the summer, cholesterols went down, and left my cow and calf in Texas. A fire burned onto the ranch the the cowboys evacuated all the horses and cattle, including my 2, across the river to an auction yard where they would be safe. They sold my big steer calf, it was time anyway. But they left my Jersey in full milk with open teats and the stress of weaning in a filthy auction yard dirt pen with every disease known to man with big beef cows beating her up. I came back a moth later and found my Jersey feverish nearly dead from sepsis with mastitis in all 4 quarters.

I took her to the vet. She sent samples to the lab and they all came back negative. NEGATIVE. So I found an online lab that does DNA analysis that identified 5 kinds of bacteria in her udder. Did cultures and sensitivities and found the antibiotic they were all sensitive to- Baytril. I gave her shots for 2 weeks and saved her life but she lost her back 2 quarters. Still she had enough milk to wean 7 calves. The screeby dairy character of the calves increased with each successive birth. Her first calf brought over $1000, later, not so much.

Her latest calf she hid in the pastures and apparently did not get enough colostrum. Her pretty little heifer calf died with no apparent reason at the age of about a week like a cut flower from the grocery store. I retired Daphne. Obviously she is a pet.

Now I have another Jersey dairy bottle calf, 4 months old. She is going to have those same tiny milking machine teats. I don't want to deal with mastitis from incomplete milkout and besides, my hands are getting arthritic. So, I figure I have about 2 years to find a used milking machine. I need the whole set up.
What you do is pen the calf, put a plug in one of the claws and let the machine drain the cow. Then the calf let in to drain the 4th quarter. You do this twice a day. Has anyone done this? What do you think?

 

[Buck Randall]

I can't help with the used milking machine, but I will give some unsolicited commentary on your mastitis treatment program. When your vet sent samples to the lab and the results were negative, that's because the bacteria were already dead. That's very common with the types of bacteria that cause toxic mastitis. They are readily killed by the cow's immune system, but the dead cells release endotoxin as they break down, making the cow very sick. The DNA testing you had performed picks up the DNA of dead bacteria. There was no need for antibiotics. Non-steroidal anti-inflammatories like Banamine are pretty effective at countering the effects of the endotoxin. That and fluid therapy to keep the cow hydrated are the most useful tools for helping them pull through.

It is illegal in the United States to use Baytril for treatment of mastitis, in large part because people mistakenly abuse it as you did.

 

[hurleyjd]

You might review the new machines on Amazon

Amazon.com : milking cow machine

 

[TexasJerseyMilker]

I find it hard to believe that all 5 kinds of bacteria were dead. The vets at the dairy DNA lab in Wisconsin advised Baytril and the local vet prescribed Baytril. She prescribed my cow Banamine too, I also gave her electrolyes. I was a vet tech before I was a human nurse.

Another subject-Banamine, benadryl and dexamethazone saved a stallion bitten on the nose by a rattlesnake. His airway was swelling shut. Horses can't breathe through their mouths. I was fixing to insert a section of rubber garden hose but the vet arrived.

Thank you for the link but what's with these off brand 2 claw milking machines? Chinese goats?
I trust Hamby Dairy supply. What I really want is a used belly pail with the pulsator and pump motor.

 

[Cowsout]

I find it hard to believe that all 5 kinds of bacteria were dead. The vets at the dairy DNA lab in Wisconsin advised Baytril and the local vet prescribed Baytril. She prescribed my cow Banamine too, I also gave her electrolyes. I was a vet tech before I was a human nurse.

Another subject-Banamine, benadryl and dexamethazone saved a stallion bitten on the nose by a rattlesnake. His airway was swelling shut. Horses can't breathe through their mouths. I was fixing to insert a section of rubber garden hose but the vet arrived.

Thank you for the link but what's with these off brand 2 claw milking machines? Chinese goats?
I trust Hamby Dairy supply. What I really want is a used belly pail with the pulsator and pump motor.

I have what you're looking for, but I'm in Florida. I retired my Jersey last year and haven't been able to sell my milking equipment. But look on ebay, there's usually a lot of single cow/goat milking machines with pulsators available.

Also, as a vet I worked on many an animal with bacterial infections that were diagnosed with PCR and not culture. Either the bacteria were no longer viable due to the conditions in that udder or they were unculturable (which is the vast majority). So I agree with Buck's assessment.

 

[Lannie]

Regarding calf-sharing, I do it with all my cows and calves. For me, it's because of winter weather. I'm not going out to milk, even with a belly milker, when it's below zero.

What you suggested, milking 3 quarters and leaving one for the calf, sounds logical, however, the cow will hold up for her calf, so you'll get all the skim milk from 3 quarters and the calf will get one whole quarter and all the cream from the other 3. If all you want is skim milk for drinking, that works, and you'll have a very fat calf to sell at weaning time. If you want cream for butter and cheese, then you have to trick the cow.

The day the calf is born, put a little foal halter on him. Also, you need a safe place to stash him overnight. We have a stall in our barn, butted up against the front of the milking stanchion so when the cow comes in for milking, she can see her baby and isn't distressed. I leave the calf with his mom the first night (in a pen attached to the barn, so not out in the pasture), then beginning on night two, the calf spends his nights in his calf stall.

The first milking of the cow, I don't really worry about where the calf is, because he's too little to bump the inflations off the cow anyway, and if he's nursing while I'm milking, I get a good, full letdown. But after the first day, I leave the calf in his stall while I milk out three quarters on the cow. When the milk stops, I take the milker off and get the calf out of the stall, on a lead rope, and steer him to mom's udder. Sometimes it takes a minute or two at the beginning, but after a few days, he'll run right to it. Anyway, he nurses his full quarter while I'm sitting on my stool on the other side of the cow (the lead rope is over her back, so I still have hold of the calf), covering "my" three quarters with my forearm. A very young calf usually can't empty a whole quarter, but sometimes they can.

When I feel the cow's udder swell up again with the second letdown, I get up and tug the calf off and put him back in his stall. Then I wipe the slobber off the calf's teat (just for cleanliness' sake) and finish milking out my three quarters. Quite a bit of additional milk, and a significant amount of cream is in that second letdown. When that milk runs out, I take the milker off and turn the cow loose with the calf, so he can finish his quarter, if he's still hungry, and he'll also have the rest of the udder to sip from during the day.

In the evening, I call the cow in for a little treat (to get her in), and then I put her calf to bed in his stall with a tub of water and some fluffy green hay. He won't eat much, but it gives him something to do during the night. Then, if there's milk in the cow's udder, I milk again, just what she lets me have. As the calf gets older, there will be less and less milk in the udder in the evenings, so I drop that milking and just milk in the mornings.

The way I do it, her udder gets emptied once a day, and I've never had a mastitis problem from not milking all the way out. Edema can sometimes be a problem, and the cow literally can't let all her milk down but it's usually only a few days and doesn't cause a problem.

I depend on the calf to help me milk through the winter, so I don't mind the extra work of having the calf jump-start the second letdown. Lots of people do. It's a personal decision. You can live with skim milk, or you can use the calf. And honestly, calves are just as much slaves to routine as their moms are. I once had two steers, similar in age (two cows calved close together) that would come running to the barn in the evening when I said it was "Time for BED!" because they knew there were treats waiting in the stall. In the morning, I milked one cow first, then the second cow, and the first cow's calf learned to wait at the stall door, because he was going out first. After he and his mom were outside and I'd milked the second cow, her calf would be waiting to be let out. It was kind of amazing, and I often wished I'd had a video camera back then. Oh, well.

After the first few days, week at most, the calf will come out of his stall in the morning, go to his assigned teat, and come off again with a tug of the lead and right back into his stall again, because he knows that in just a few more minutes, he'll be going outside to spend the day with his mom. That's his routine.

Sorry that was so long and wordy, but it took me a good many years to actually refine this routine into something that works. I made a lot of mistakes, but I learned from them. And it should go without saying that you should have a selection of larger halters to use for the calf as it grows, if you decide to use the calf the way I described.

 

[Buck Randall]

I find it hard to believe that all 5 kinds of bacteria were dead. The vets at the dairy DNA lab in Wisconsin advised Baytril and the local vet prescribed Baytril. She prescribed my cow Banamine too, I also gave her electrolyes. I was a vet tech before I was a human nurse.

That brings me to another point that I let go in my last post. If a cow has five different bacterial populations in a sample, that's not because she's infected with five different bacteria; it's a contaminated sample. Reputable labs will usually call a sample contaminated if they detect more than two organisms.

Beware private labs that don't require you to submit through a veterinarian. They make their living on customer satisfaction. Some of them would rather make you happy than tell you you've wasted your money.

A recommendation or prescription from a vet to treat mastitis with Baytril is illegal. I don't know if your vet knows that or not, but they'd probably prefer you didn't post about it on the internet.

 

[TexasJerseyMilker]

Baytril was not illegal for dairy cows years ago. That is when this happened. The lab definitely satisfied me and within 3 days of Baytril my dying cow greatly improved. I am a nurse who got the highest A in the school's history in microbiology. My samples were not contaminated.

My stressed out cow had been laying in the filthy dirt of an auction yard leaking milk with open teats. All of those bacteria were and are found on cattle except one. One of the bacteria she had was Staph aureus. It quietly festers in the udder and never goes away. It reappears with every lactation. I probably did contaminate her with that one during milking. From now on I handle udders with disposable gloves changed twice during the process.

The quarters of cows are not connected. Each quarter is a separate system. When I share milked, Daphne held up some cream in the two quarters I milked from, in fact, she could turn off her milk just like a faucet. The only way she would let down milk and cream is when the calf was sucking the other two. I am tired of struggling to get milk and cream. Heck, I dont have anything else to do. I might as well get a milking machine and milk the new heifer out, turn her to pasture, take the calf away at birth and raise it on a bottle like they do on dairys. They could still visit through the fence but not in anywhere near the milking area.

.................... Now that I read through Lannies technique--- Yes! that is perfect.

................... Cowsout, you should PM me. I could pay shipping if the price is right. What have you got? I left most of my equipment in Texas, stanchion and everything. All I've got is some good stainless steel milk buckets, a pasteurizer, some milk filters and California mastitis test solution and paddles.

 

[TexasJerseyMilker]

Another thing. What do people do about massive udder edema? The huge amount of edema makes the pressure in the udder so high hardly anything can flow. The cardiac nurse and vet tech in me wants to give a few days of Lasix but I've never done it, probably it is illegal.

 

[MurraysMutts]

The edema should go away after "milking" regularly. Be that the calf nursing or u milking her.

Anything else would most probably be a genetic issue I would think.

 

[TexasJerseyMilker]

One thing- the calf has got to get the colostrum. Daphne has such small, hesitant, dainty little calves they don't seem to be getting much of anything while she has massive edema. I have even purchased store bought colostrum for them. You are such a great raiser of baby animals, but probably used to the big rowdy auction beef calves you put on fresh cows.

 

[Buck Randall]

Another thing. What do people do about massive udder edema? The huge amount of edema makes the pressure in the udder so high hardly anything can flow. The cardiac nurse and vet tech in me wants to give a few days of Lasix but I've never done it, probably it is illegal.

Lasix works and is actually approved for treatment of udder edema in cattle.

SALIX® (furosemide injection) | Merck Animal Health USA

OVERVIEW DESCRIPTION THE SCIENCE OF TRUSTED A diuretic-saluretic for prompt relief of edema associated with cardiac insufficiency and acute noninflammatory tissue edema. High potency for effective diuresis Predictable performance with high therapeutic index Rapid onset of diuresis with peak...

www.merck-animal-health-usa.com

 

[hurleyjd]

Another thing. What do people do about massive udder edema? The huge amount of edema makes the pressure in the udder so high hardly anything can flow. The cardiac nurse and vet tech in me wants to give a few days of Lasix but I've never done it, probably it is illegal.

Do not over feed during gestation. feed about a 12 percent ration with the needed vitmans and low salt.

 

[MurraysMutts]

One thing- the calf has got to get the colostrum. Daphne has such small, hesitant, dainty little calves they don't seem to be getting much of anything while she has massive edema. I have even purchased store bought colostrum for them. You are such a great raiser of baby animals, but probably used to the big rowdy auction beef calves you put on fresh cows.

I gotcha!
A persistent, vigorous calf does help a lot!

However I had a danged char/bwf calf that liked to killed me. He was big boy but just couldn't get it figured out. I had to chute that cow and watch to be able to believe it!
That story is somewhere here on the boards. Sold the cow because of her udder and no other reason. Her next calf did great all by itself tho. Sold her as a pair to a friend. And he was made aware of her issue/non-issue.

These last 2 I put on Eleanor were without teats for near 36 hrs. Water and access to feed.
When I let them lil farts out the trailer they went straight to the udder! Nothing else in the world mattered! Cracked me up.

And I'm rambling again...

Charolais bulls

I bet she would make a pretty calf with 'ol hank Char-trudis... lol

www.cattletoday.com

Here it is. Starts on page 4
Idk about edema. But her teats were really fat. This calf just seemed dumb. He would push the teat with his nose straight away from his mouth. Her next calf had no issues. Next calf was by Big Sexy, my hereford.

 

[TexasJerseyMilker]

Thats good, I will be ready with lasix for next time.

Maybe Mutt's big calf knew that was not his mother. The other calves as they say Hunger if the best sauce.

You know? I never fed Daphne feed in late pregnancy, just good Bermuda pasture and mineral salt, because the calf grows large in the last 45 days. We had to pull her first calf, didn't' want to do that again. Maybe it is the salt.

Concerning Daphne's udder pathogens. The lab back then listed culture and sensitivities, not PCR. To have culture and sensitivity they had to have live bacteria.

It is funny, but the way I obtained the highest microbiology score in history was by extra credit obtained by swabbing the Dean's toilet seat. I snuck in, swabbed and cultured 8 kinds of bacteria, picked and isolated pure cultures, stained and IDed 6 kinds out of the 8. Then I ran sensitivities on what antibiotic that killed them. This is done by placing spots of various antibiotics on the culture petri dishes held at body temperature. I then published the results on sheets of paper displayed on telephone poles throughout the campus. Never did hear from the Dean. I enjoyed 'germ farming'. But then we went to lecture and learned what these bacteria actually did to people made me want to pour Cloxox on my 'farms.

 

[MurraysMutts]

Thats good, I will be ready with lasix for next time.

Maybe Mutt's big calf knew that was not his mother. The other calves as they say Hunger if the best sauce.

You know? I never fed Daphne feed in late pregnancy, just good Bermuda pasture and mineral salt, because the calf grows large in the last 45 days. We had to pull her first calf, didn't' want to do that again. Maybe it is the salt.

Concerning Daphne's udder pathogens. The lab back then listed culture and sensitivities, not PCR. To have culture and sensitivity they had to have live bacteria.

It is funny, but the way I obtained the highest microbiology score in history was by extra credit obtained by swabbing the Dean's toilet seat. I snuck in, swabbed and cultured 8 kinds of bacteria, picked and isolated pure cultures, stained and IDed 6 kinds out of the 8. Then I ran sensitivities on what antibiotic that killed them. This is done by placing spots of various antibiotics on the culture petri dishes held at body temperature. I then published the results on sheets of paper displayed on telephone poles throughout the campus. Never did hear from the Dean. I enjoyed 'germ farming'. But then we went to lecture and learned what these bacteria actually did to people made me want to pour Cloxox on my 'farms.

I added a link above while u were replying. I don't think edema was the issue? There is pics!
But maybe? Idk. Her teats shrank some once I got him nursing.
When u say edema do u mean the udder is just so big and low with short lil teats? Or something else?

I'm just super curious

 

[TexasJerseyMilker]

This is great https://www.merck-animal-health-usa.com/species/cattle/products/cattle-udder-health

Udder edema. The udder is huge. If you press your finger into the edema the pit says, just like with people. The teats start to stick out in all directions, not pointing down like they are supposed to. Hardly anything can be milked out. Newborn calves try and after a while give up. It lasts for a few days maybe a week. And at this time the calf must get colostrum.


I have read that some people rub a strong peppermint udder salve on it.

 

[MurraysMutts]

I understand now. Thanks!

Don't think I've ever had that issue. Is that a genetic issue? General milk cow issue? Related to machine milking?

I've not had a fresh pure jersey yet. Just trying to "absorb" information. Information is good!

When I get Eleanor bred I'll know a thing or two before she calves I hope.

I have heard machine milked cows are more susceptible to mastitis. Something about it leaves the teats open? Whereas calves nursing do not. Sound right?

Edited to add. Found this.

Physiologic Disorders of the Udder in Cows - Reproductive System - Merck Veterinary Manual

Learn about the veterinary topic of Physiologic Disorders of the Udder in Cows. Find specific details on this topic and related topics from the Merck Vet Manual.

www.merckvetmanual.com

Gonna add this. I like information!

 

[TexasJerseyMilker]

I've been to the dairy and saw the separaetly kept fresh cows that newly birthed their calves (bottle raised). And the Holsteins have huge udder edema also. The dairy keeps a stock of colostrum for the calves.

 

[Lannie]

I have heard machine milked cows are more susceptible to mastitis. Something about it leaves the teats open? Whereas calves nursing do not. Sound right?

Personally, I think calves have antiseptic slobber, LOL! But the reason machine milking is more prone to mastitis is that when the teat is in the udder (WHAT? OMG, I need more coffee!) When the teat is in the INFLATION, milk swirls around inside the inflation for a moment before being drawn down the hose, so it's touching the outside of the teat. Cows, just like people, can carry Staph a on their skin, so when machine milking, it's important to sterilize the teats with some sort of teat dip before putting the inflations on.

Calves nursing and hand milking pull the milk out of the teat canal, without all the swirling around the teat end. Well, maybe it swirls a little bit inside the calf's mouth, but the hard sucking action keeps the teat canal tight, and when he finally pulls off, it (mostly) closes it, as would strip milking after milking by hand. There isn't as much chance of something bad getting in there and brewing.

Sometimes beef cows that only have their calves on will get mastitis, too. There's no guarantee. But they're LESS likely than a cow that's milked by a human, either by hand or by machine. You just have to try to be as careful as you can.