I have my cattle freeze branded at weaning time. I used to use a heat brand. there is a company that does the freeze branding for me. I am going to do it myself. for you that do your own branding. I know the freeze branding looks better on black hided cattle but which method do you use and why. also where is teh best place to get your supplies. thanks
type of brand
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cattle_gal
Well-known member
Make sure your state allows freeze branding as legal ownership on cattle.
Craig-TX
Well-known member
la4angus":2owvpdgi said:
Yes
Craig-TX
sidney411
Well-known member
Why would a freeze brand not qualify as a legal marking of ownership when a fire brand would? What is the difference, they both make a permanent mark, right? Is a freeze brand easy to alter?
frenchie
Well-known member
la4angus":23ygvqo4 said:
Its amazing to me how much difference there is in brand law from state to state or province to province.Or for that matter........
Whats allowed for type of brand, or branding method....hot or freeze
cattle_gal
Well-known member
Here's the MT law stating the legality of branding.
BRANDING AND INSPECTIONS 32.18.104
Sub-Chapter 1
Branding
32.18.101 HOT IRON BRANDS REQUIRED (1) Under the brand laws of the state, with the following exceptions only hot iron brands will be recognized by the department of livestock, brands enforcement division on all livestock for sheep, goats and swine and with the exception that freeze brands may be applied to horses, mules or asses. (History: Sec. 81-1-102, MCA; IMP , Sec. 81-1-102, MCA; Eff. 12/31/72; AMD , 1990 MAR p. 150, Eff. 10/26/90.)
Here would be my take on why freeze branding is not legal here. How easy would it be to paint over the discolored hair. very. When there is no scar no one can tell the difference. And then the rustler can turn around and hot iron the cow and bingo it's his. And then discolor the other freeze brand so it is not identifiable. Or if he is going to kill it and transporting it's a quick coloring and boom who's to say it isn't his.
Granted with hot ironing if someone has a simple brand (one letter or number)it can be altered also. So alway smart to pick brands that can't be altered.
I have thought about freeze branding our calves that go to the feedlot, until I found out it wasn't a legal identification. It would make the calf more valueable to the buyer and then with no hide blemishes valuable in the leather market.
BRANDING AND INSPECTIONS 32.18.104
Sub-Chapter 1
Branding
32.18.101 HOT IRON BRANDS REQUIRED (1) Under the brand laws of the state, with the following exceptions only hot iron brands will be recognized by the department of livestock, brands enforcement division on all livestock for sheep, goats and swine and with the exception that freeze brands may be applied to horses, mules or asses. (History: Sec. 81-1-102, MCA; IMP , Sec. 81-1-102, MCA; Eff. 12/31/72; AMD , 1990 MAR p. 150, Eff. 10/26/90.)
Here would be my take on why freeze branding is not legal here. How easy would it be to paint over the discolored hair. very. When there is no scar no one can tell the difference. And then the rustler can turn around and hot iron the cow and bingo it's his. And then discolor the other freeze brand so it is not identifiable. Or if he is going to kill it and transporting it's a quick coloring and boom who's to say it isn't his.
Granted with hot ironing if someone has a simple brand (one letter or number)it can be altered also. So alway smart to pick brands that can't be altered.
I have thought about freeze branding our calves that go to the feedlot, until I found out it wasn't a legal identification. It would make the calf more valueable to the buyer and then with no hide blemishes valuable in the leather market.
Oldtimer
Well-known member
cattle_gal":1ykaa4hb said:
cattle_gal- You pretty much explained it with the failure to leave scarring-- an altered hot iron brand can be identified from examination on the inside of the hide...
Problem I've found with freezebranding is that if not done absolutely correct you many times have fading out and no way to read them after a time period. Then your paperwork says you have a branded animal- but the animal isn't..........
DRB
Well-known member
Why brand? Why not tattoo in the ears? Is there a real need to prove ownership? Are that many cattle stolen?
frenchie
Well-known member
DRB":3i53eqp7 said:
You have too realize that a tattoo is not very pratical in some situations,With a good brand Its visually fast to identify it. In my particular case ,we have cattle spread over several locations.Sometimes we don,t see the entire herd at one time till late fall.So if someone were to grab a few head, and take them to the market my brand is right there.I don,t think anyone would notice a tattoo.
frenchie
Well-known member
Oldtimer...........just imagine how complicated it can get, if you run cattle in 2 states or provinces.
My Manitoba brand is ilegal in Saskatchewan as it is an enclosed brand.
I don,t bother with a Sask brand,even though I run cattle there.I guess my cows are .....Illegal Aliens..... :lol: :lol: :lol:
My Manitoba brand is ilegal in Saskatchewan as it is an enclosed brand.
I don,t bother with a Sask brand,even though I run cattle there.I guess my cows are .....Illegal Aliens..... :lol: :lol: :lol:
Texan
Well-known member
Oldtimer has the best credentials for expert status here. But, until he gets here, I'll share my opinion. Fire branding is the best method of permanent identification we have. Not only do hot iron brands provide legal proof of ownership, just having them is a great theft deterrent. They give our brand inspectors and other law enforcement one more tool to help us keep what we work for!DRB":3irvz7du said:
And yes, there is a real need to prove ownership. Check out the link below for just a few cases from the Texas and Southwestern Cattle Raisers Association. This list is not current and doesn't include all theft cases, even in Texas. Interesting reading and surely will answer the question---"Are that many cattle stolen?"
http://www.texascattleraisers.org/theftProtectionReport.asp
TheBullLady
Well-known member
We firebrand.. but primarily because ABBA requires that for registration.
A good friend of ours lost 11 heifers last summer.. and he's a member of Southwest Cattle Raisers Assoc. for all the good it did him. His cattle were also all branded, a very large three part brand. None were ever recovered. So much for that theory.
A good friend of ours lost 11 heifers last summer.. and he's a member of Southwest Cattle Raisers Assoc. for all the good it did him. His cattle were also all branded, a very large three part brand. None were ever recovered. So much for that theory.
Texan
Well-known member
Bull Lady, I know we've had this discussion before, so I'll keep it brief. Its unfortunate that our Field Inspectors can't recover 100% of the cattle reported to them as stolen. This fact keeps a lot of them awake nights, too. However, they do prevent the thieves from having a 100% success rate. I'm proud of the job they do. Running cattle in rural Texas would be a helluva lot bigger gamble without them!TheBullLady":4nyrp54a said:
Oldtimer
Well-known member
DRB":1lsztw8p said:
DRB- You ask if there is a real need to prove ownership?--I'll give you a hypothetical of an everyday situation: Say you own 200 black pairs- You put them in the community grazing with 10 other owners who each own 200 hundred black cows-- These 2000+ cattle all graze together on 100,000 acres of pasture- all of which is surrounded by 4-5 hundred thousand acres more of pasture which has another 10,000+ head of cattle-Much of which is lucky to have a 3 or 4 wire fence around it--- Then tell me how you will tell which cows and calves are yours in the fall when you gather these pastures?
Tattoos can be altered without the capability of easily telling that it has been altered like you can with a hot brand -- Brands are also readily visible- for easily identifying a stolen or strayed animal from a distance- With tattoos you have to restrain each individual animal in order to read it.........
As far as the theft issue- Yes there are still cattle being stolen-- I can't remember the exact numbers, but Montana Dept. Of Livestock, thru their inspectors recover over $1 million worth of stolen or estray livestock a year because of brands. I've found stray cattle that were over 100 miles and several pastures from their home pasture-- Without a brand to prove ownership they would become property of the state............
Oldtimer
Well-known member
TheBullLady":vvqo2krs said:
One of the main reasons so many of these cattle never get recovered is because there are so many states that don't require brands and brand inspection. Once you get the cattle out of a brand state into a no brand area there is no one to challenge ownership............ A few hours driving during the night and you can be in a no brand area with a trailer load of cattle that it doesn't matter what they're branded with, tattoed with, or what type of ear tags they have-- No one questions them- possession is ownership.................
