True Breeder vs......

[artesianspringsfarm]

I would think there is room for both types of breeders One has the goal of producing pounds the other a tighter line bred animal that might have the ability to work on forage better. Of course before All Forage goes all grassfed on us, I have a question. Do you feed and hay or silage? If so you aint all forage! If that grass hay been cut or processed its just feed, just like the stuff that comes out of a bucket. Their are not many places in the US where you can be all forage.

Houston, I gotta ask, how the heck is hay that is dried in field and baled, not grass? I'm not talking haylage or silage, but baled hay. Grassfed certainly means feeding grass and legume (in standing or cut form) only as opposed to grains. What am I missing?

 

[ALACOWMAN]

I would think there is room for both types of breeders One has the goal of producing pounds the other a tighter line bred animal that might have the ability to work on forage better. Of course before All Forage goes all grassfed on us, I have a question. Do you feed and hay or silage? If so you aint all forage! If that grass hay been cut or processed its just feed, just like the stuff that comes out of a bucket. Their are not many places in the US where you can be all forage.

Houston, I gotta ask, how the heck is hay that is dried in field and baled, not grass? I'm not talking haylage or silage, but baled hay. Grassfed certainly means feeding grass and legume (in standing or cut form) only as opposed to grains. What am I missing?

they do eat hay, dont see how they could'nt at times.. even here... the folks that graze year round mostly do so to cut equipment expences let them harvest it

 

[sim.-ang.king]

A True Breeder is someone who is faithful.

Well shoot i'm dedicated, and faithful to raising the best crossbred cattle. Guess that makes me a True Crossbred Breeder.
This morning I didn't even know what it is, now I come to find I am one.
Bet ol' All Forage loves being in the same ranks as me, and a bunch of other cross bred hillbillies!

 

[glacierridge]

A True Breeder is someone who is faithful.

Well shoot i'm dedicated, and faithful to raising the best crossbred cattle. Guess that makes me a True Crossbred Breeder.
This morning I didn't even know what it is, now I come to find I am one.
Bet ol' All Forage loves being in the same ranks as me, and a bunch of other cross bred hillbillies!

Me too! :cboy:

 

[3waycross]

dont start with me. get your ass off your shoulder...

Don't worry about my ass. Just substantiate your quote. If it is "your" quote say so. I just would like for someone to show me where anyone has defined the true meaning of Purebred Breeder and Multiplier.

Quit being so touchy. I like Glen Campbell :mrgreen:

it dont need it, it speaks for itself... aint a dam bit of it needs explained.. just dont sic your pm buddys on me :cowboy:

If it makes you feel good to identify with one or the other that's fine with me. The part i have problem with is the arrogance that anyone's way is supposed to be a "fit all " for the rest of us.

Like i have said before this is America you can do what you want , say what you want, and be what you want.as long as it's legal.

What you don't get to do is tell me i am wrong because i don't believe what you do.........cuz that's when i get to say what I want and that is.........when you pay my bills you can tell me how to live or who to be or what kind of cattle to breed.

BTW I still like Glen Campbell :mrgreen:

 

[ALACOWMAN]

Don't worry about my ass. Just substantiate your quote. If it is "your" quote say so. I just would like for someone to show me where anyone has defined the true meaning of Purebred Breeder and Multiplier.

Quit being so touchy. I like Glen Campbell :mrgreen:[/quote]
it dont need it, it speaks for itself... aint a dam bit of it needs explained.. just dont sic your pm buddys on me :cowboy:[/quote]

If it makes you feel good to identify with one or the other that's fine with me. The part i have problem with is the arrogance that anyone's way is supposed to be a "fit all " for the rest of us.

Like i have said before this is America you can do what you want , say what you want, and be what you want.as long as it's legal.

What you don't get to do is tell me i am wrong because i don't believe what you do.........cuz that's when i get to say what I want and that is.........when you pay my bills you can tell me how to live or who to be or what kind of cattle to breed.

BTW I still like Glen Campbell :mrgreen:[/quote] if you aint noticed ,and im sure you aint ''starting to think you cant"".. is i aint suggested you to do a dam thing.. edit so it dont get locked on account of me :mrgreen:

 

[ALACOWMAN]

for the record, im not on any side.. ive been raising cattle close to 30 years..im my own man. don't need to ride a shirt tail

 

[AllForage]

I would think there is room for both types of breeders One has the goal of producing pounds the other a tighter line bred animal that might have the ability to work on forage better. Of course before All Forage goes all grassfed on us, I have a question. Do you feed and hay or silage? If so you aint all forage! If that grass hay been cut or processed its just feed, just like the stuff that comes out of a bucket. Their are not many places in the US where you can be all forage.

I was going to post my thoughts but this ridiculous post was too much to pass up. You are really talking out of school here. Please go look up the definition with the USDA as I am sure anything Gov't run is your friend. Then get back to us or better yet just keep quiet.

For the record, linebred cattle are not just for grass only and seriously get some learnin.

 

[AllForage]

The young lady that manages my cows for me sometimes Raises purebred Angus bulls. She goes out of her way to NOT linebreed because she feels that her customer base are commercial guys and they WANT at least semi new genetics every couple of years. She takes a New Design based Angus herd and outcrosses them to different Angus bloodlines(within certain parameters) every couple of years. Mostly thru AI but also with her bought bulls.

It works for her. She as a good reputation for her bulls and her customers keep coming back for more. Now obviously by your standards that makes her a "multiplier".
My answer is "So what"? It works for her and since neither you or Knersie or anyone else pays her bills who are you or anyone else to judge her a a breeder of purebred cattle.

Having said that i will also say that if linebreeding and creating a tight genetic package works for you and Knersie then good for you and him but you were never elected to be the keepers of the bovine good so why so arrogant about how other folks run their business?

WOW man where did that come from? Arrogant? I mean I am not the one with the COW MANAGER.

 

[u4411clb]

Who is Glen Campbell?

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

Who is Glen Campbell?

Let's not get that started again.

 

[dun]

Who is Glen Campbell?

Mr & Mrs Campbells boy Glen. I think they make soup too.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

Who is Glen Campbell

:cowboy: just a joke.. with him and his buddy alan

 

[dun]

I would think there is room for both types of breeders One has the goal of producing pounds the other a tighter line bred animal that might have the ability to work on forage better. Of course before All Forage goes all grassfed on us, I have a question. Do you feed and hay or silage? If so you aint all forage! If that grass hay been cut or processed its just feed, just like the stuff that comes out of a bucket. Their are not many places in the US where you can be all forage.

Houston, I gotta ask, how the heck is hay that is dried in field and baled, not grass? I'm not talking haylage or silage, but baled hay. Grassfed certainly means feeding grass and legume (in standing or cut form) only as opposed to grains. What am I missing?

To me "forage" is what the cows gather for themsleves (i.e. grazing/foraging) as opposed to it being brought to them.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

I would think there is room for both types of breeders One has the goal of producing pounds the other a tighter line bred animal that might have the ability to work on forage better. Of course before All Forage goes all grassfed on us, I have a question. Do you feed and hay or silage? If so you aint all forage! If that grass hay been cut or processed its just feed, just like the stuff that comes out of a bucket. Their are not many places in the US where you can be all forage.

Houston, I gotta ask, how the heck is hay that is dried in field and baled, not grass? I'm not talking haylage or silage, but baled hay. Grassfed certainly means feeding grass and legume (in standing or cut form) only as opposed to grains. What am I missing?

To me "forage" is what the cows gather for themsleves (i.e. grazing/foraging) as opposed to it being brought to them.

to many hairs to split on the term.. i dont take it directly to em they meet me at a predesignated location :cowboy:

 

[3waycross]

The young lady that manages my cows for me sometimes Raises purebred Angus bulls. She goes out of her way to NOT linebreed because she feels that her customer base are commercial guys and they WANT at least semi new genetics every couple of years. She takes a New Design based Angus herd and outcrosses them to different Angus bloodlines(within certain parameters) every couple of years. Mostly thru AI but also with her bought bulls.

It works for her. She as a good reputation for her bulls and her customers keep coming back for more. Now obviously by your standards that makes her a "multiplier".
My answer is "So what"? It works for her and since neither you or Knersie or anyone else pays her bills who are you or anyone else to judge her a a breeder of purebred cattle.

Having said that i will also say that if linebreeding and creating a tight genetic package works for you and Knersie then good for you and him but you were never elected to be the keepers of the bovine good so why so arrogant about how other folks run their business?

WOW man where did that come from? Arrogant? I mean I am not the one with the COW MANAGER.

So what's yer point. The cow manager is just another expense that i have to absorb and still try to survive in the cattle business because i cannot do my full time job and do what it takes with my cows in the winter. She feeds my cows for me in the winter and does my AI work. If you don't have to hire help then good for you. Hiring someone to help me does not make me arrogant it just makes me have higher expenses.

FWIW arrogant in the sense that if we don't believe what you do then the rest of us are somehow not quite up to your standards.

 

[AllForage]

forage only or grass fed means animals fed or eating directly from (can be stored) grasses, legumes, forbs, brassicas, and a few others. Overall they cannot contain grain type starches. Thats it. The details of how it is done is up to your customers or market, nuff said.


Since I started it I will throw a few ideas out. A true breeder from the maternal side of things uses their own bulls, not absolutely always but mostly (Is not just riding other breeders coat tails and reputation) . Has his animals overwhelmingly throughout the pedigrees. Knows what he has and it reproduces itself to some degree. Also breeds for his climate and resources without expensive inputs. And maybe nowadays avoids the show thing. Doesn't even think about flushing until the cattle have been proven and have longevity.

just a few thoughts....

 

[TexasBred]

Since I started it I will throw a few ideas out. A true breeder from the maternal side of things uses their own bulls, not absolutely always but mostly (Is not just riding other breeders coat tails and reputation) . Has his animals overwhelmingly throughout the pedigrees. Knows what he has and it reproduces itself to some degree. Also breeds for his climate and resources without expensive inputs. And maybe nowadays avoids the show thing. Doesn't even think about flushing until the cattle have been proven and have longevity.

just a few thoughts....

That sound more like a multiplier to me. Don't forget to faithfully cull cattle that don't meet your standards, haul them to the salebarn so they can become someone else's "seedstock". Still just multiplying.

 

[3waycross]

forage only or grass fed means animals fed or eating directly from (can be stored) grasses, legumes, forbs, brassicas, and a few others. Overall they cannot contain grain type starches. Thats it. The details of how it is done is up to your customers or market, nuff said.


Since I started it I will throw a few ideas out. A true breeder from the maternal side of things uses their own bulls, not absolutely always but mostly (Is not just riding other breeders coat tails and reputation) . Has his animals overwhelmingly throughout the pedigrees. Knows what he has and it reproduces itself to some degree. Also breeds for his climate and resources without expensive inputs. And maybe nowadays avoids the show thing. Doesn't even think about flushing until the cattle have been proven and have longevity.

just a few thoughts....

not a darned thing there that i disagree with. However whoever you are you have to start somewhere and you are always going to be riding on someones coat tails.
a better analogy for me is who is the best baker. We can all bake a cake but the best results come from the person who uses the best ingredients and knows how to put them together. THAT to me is the difference between a breeder and a multilpier.

Do you get better with every generation or not! To me anyway that's a better question.
the problem for me and lots of others is that it's a long process and sometimes ya just have to shortcut it to get from point a to point d before ya die of old age!

 

[AllForage]

forage only or grass fed means animals fed or eating directly from (can be stored) grasses, legumes, forbs, brassicas, and a few others. Overall they cannot contain grain type starches. Thats it. The details of how it is done is up to your customers or market, nuff said.


Since I started it I will throw a few ideas out. A true breeder from the maternal side of things uses their own bulls, not absolutely always but mostly (Is not just riding other breeders coat tails and reputation) . Has his animals overwhelmingly throughout the pedigrees. Knows what he has and it reproduces itself to some degree. Also breeds for his climate and resources without expensive inputs. And maybe nowadays avoids the show thing. Doesn't even think about flushing until the cattle have been proven and have longevity.

just a few thoughts....

not a darned thing there that i disagree with. However whoever you are you have to start somewhere and you are always going to be riding on someones coat tails.
a better analogy for me is who is the best baker. We can all bake a cake but the best results come from the person who uses the best ingredients and knows how to put them together. THAT to me is the difference between a breeder and a multilpier.

Do you get better with every generation or not! To me anyway that's a better question.
the problem for me and lots of others is that it's a long process and sometimes ya just have to shortcut it to get from point a to point d before ya die of old age!

What is better to you and at what cost? Is it possible to get good enough for one's situation? Is it wrong to maintain what one has if it is working?