training cattle dogs with aids, bb guns et al

[jbar]

you need to work with your dogs up close. like on a rope maybe,if you cant inforce the command dont give it . constantly giving a command teaches the dog not to lisen.
if the cowboy with the good dogs will help you train your dogs let him.if he has good dogs he must be doing something right weather its with a bb gun or shock coller or nothing but a rope. everyone trains different,what works for me may not work the same for you stay flexable. the proof is in the good dogs you said this cowboy has. good dogs are hard to come bye if you dont think so try to buy someones good dog. i train border collies for ranch work feel free to pm anytime.

you can send alot to buy a good dog,but i takes kindness to make his tail wag.

 

[Brute 23]

You have to be clear in what is being said.

YOu should not use a BB gun, ect... to TRAIN a dog. That should be done up close off of positive and negative reinforcements.

BUT,

Some times it is necessary to use those types of tools to reinforce what you have already TRAINED the dog to do.

Just like dogs get smart to shock collars some can get smart to acting right when they are close to you but not when they know they are out of arms length. That is when you go to methods such as bb guns... but not until after you have well exhausted to close and person training.

There is a right way to use shock collars and stuff but a majority of the people using them try to TRAIN with them instead of reinforcing what the dogs has already been TRAINED with them.

 

[Florida cattle]

I think it depends on how the dogs and how they are worked, if I'm close to the dogs the voice comand works well, but with my currs if they get a little bit of distance from me the voice command dose not always work but the shock collar will. I belive this is due to how focused they are on there job, and trying not to let the cow get them. I have a heeler cross I use at the pen he is close to me in the pen so no need for a collar.

jivicars also check out this website, Charlie Trayer is one of the best known cowdog trainers in the US and he use the shock collar but not on all of his dogs just the one that may need it.
He has a good trainig video and book.

http://www.trayerscowdogs.com/

 

[Brute 23]

if I'm close to the dogs the voice comand works well, but with my currs if they get a little bit of distance from me the voice command dose not always work but the shock collar will. I belive this is due to how focused they are on there job, and trying not to let the cow get them.

Sorry but there are pleanty of dogs out there that listen and stay focused. ;-)

I don't want to bash on you or your dogs. The minute you start making excuses for the dogs you are headed down the wrong path. I have caught hogs with trashy dogs, but that didn't make what they were doing ok because they still got the job done. :shock:

You should always be striving for a better dog and ALL dogs are ALWAYS in TRAINING. The minute you ease up is the minute they will let you down.

Side not... Never brag about your ol lady or your dogs because they will both let you down. :lol: :lol:

 

[Florida cattle]

Brute it is true there are plenty of dogs that stay focused and will still listen to voice commands I have some that will and some that want.(at a distance) You may ask why I keep these dogs, it's simple they work and keep on working, and no cow is too rank for them, and when you work cows for other people and you never know what kind of cows you may be working till you show up it's nice to have a dog that want play out on you, even if he is a little hard headed. I also say that in my own experince and learning from my grandfather some of it has to do with "pack aggressiveness" one dog always listens better than a pack.

Also if you noticed I said distance plays a part in it too all my dogs will listen when I'm close.

Dogs are like humans they will make mistakes from time to time too.

 

[Brute 23]

The problem is you don't have a handle on your dogs. They have not been TRAINED properly.

Go back to the basics of obiedience. Start in close quarters where you are in control of all the variables. Work on you commands and getting the dogs to look at you, respect you, and try to please you.

As they get every thing down when they are close start moving farther and farther away. If they start acting up with distance bring them back in close and reinforce every thing and start moving out again. A well TRAINED dog is good at 5' and 5 miles.

Shock collars are just, in some ways, kind of a quick cover up of the actual problem, that being no handle on the dogs. Good TRAINING, although it takes more time and effort, is far better in the end.