to feed or not to feed, that is the question

[Fire Sweep Ranch]

Our cows have been going thru hay so fast! They always have a couple tubs, loose mineral and on Saturdays my husband dumps a bag of cubes out. They went thru 2 round bales in 3 days. Even when the weather was fine, they were going thru them that quickly. There are 12 cows, 2 calves and the bull. Does that sound about right?

Sounds a little high, but there are so many variables to consider. In one pasture, we are feeding 19 animals that are cows and bred heifers, plus 8 fall calves. We put down a 4x5 bale, about 1000 pounds, every other day. We unroll it because there is less waist with so many eating at once. This is our first year unrolling, and I am amazed at how little is waisted compared to when we used the hay ring. The weather has been a little cold, 20s at night and mid thirties during the day.

 

[stockbub]

It may sound like my ind is made up, but it bounces back and forth. Like in the evening,I was running late and was like, I wish some tubs were out. Then I look at a couple of my cows and say, they need a little feed
Then there is the lack of knowledge about which way would be better for milk production. And finally,how can I get cows to be bred back faster.I can see feed going in, but what is it really doing, at that level of pounds Fed.I fellow farmer puts out 1 pound per day.people say, all he is gettin is gentle cows. Was of money for no real benefit. It is hard for me to truely see what tubs do, but people use then so they have to work.it seems like each decision is an expetiment I just figured people have already done, what I have to do and wondered what their outcome was. This is a business for me, not pets. Which way do you spend the money to make the most money. For those similar to me, how are they making money and hoe can i

 

[TexasBred]

Stockhub both ways will work. The important thing is that whichever way you go make sure a quality product is being fed. I still question the price of the feed, but assuming it is what you say it is, it can be little more than filler. Cattle are expected to lose a little bit of body condition during the course of a hard winter and more especially if they are nursing a calf. Two or three pounds of a low quality feed is a total waste of money. Stop second guessing yourself.

 

[B&M Farms]

If it's about money and not how easy it is, feed is cheaper than tubs. Like Texasbred I would question a feed that is 12 percent protein and 14 percent fat for 220 a ton. Look at how much you are giving for pounds of protein. 90 dollars for a 26 percent tub means you pay $1.73 a pound for protein. 20 percent cubes at $11.00 a sack is $1.10 a pound of protein. A 38 percent cube at $15 a sack would be $.79 a pound of protein. A higher protein bulk feed would be cheaper. If your hay is low quality, protein and free choice mineral will usually do it. If your cows need a energy feed for weight gain it will usually cost more. With cows with calves in the winter, just try to keep them around a 5 going in to spring and they will be okay.

 

[TexasBred]

Lick tubs vs feed. 20% lick tubs are 90 bucks. Feed is $220 a ton. They say cows will eat around 3lbs of lick tubs a day so that is 90/225*3=1.40 daily per cow. 220/2000=$0.11 per pound. 1.40/.11=12.72 lbs. If cows only eat 2 lbs of lick @ .80 then feed would be over 6.5 lbs. More labor with feed, but, which will give more benefit. Feed is 12%protein14%fat.. they also can have all the hay they want. Thanks.

Stock double check that tag...that fat has to be 1.4% instead of 14%.

 

[-XBAR-]

Gotta go with pdfangus....I'd like to know your reasoning for feeding. Bad hay? Overstocked? Overstocked because of drought? Or is it, Just because it's what you do?

Most likely because stockpiled Bermuda doesn't have adequate nutrition when dormant.

 

[Brute 23]

Stock if you have plenty of hay I'd use the tubs and forget about the feed. That feed has to be nothing but trash at that price. The tubs will do their job but don't expect your cattle to gain weight in the winter time nursing babies.

CAN WE GAT AN AMEN?....AMEN...

:nod: AMEN

I don't understand why you would buy feed when you have pleanty of good hay bought and paid for already. Your adding an extra cost (the feed) while your hay is rotting away. :???:

 

[B&M Farms]

I wouldn't call 8 to 11 percent hay good hay for cows calving in the winter. They need protein to utilize the hay. Tubs will work but at $90 for a 20 percent 200lb tub, a high protein feed would be cheaper.

 

[TexasBred]

I wouldn't call 8 to 11 percent hay good hay for cows calving in the winter. They need protein to utilize the hay. Tubs will work but at $90 for a 20 percent 200lb tub, a high protein feed would be cheaper.

They will utilize the protein in the hay. Adding protein won't increase the value of the hay...only "compliment or supplement" it.

 

[-XBAR-]

I wouldn't call 8 to 11 percent hay good hay for cows calving in the winter. They need protein to utilize the hay. Tubs will work but at $90 for a 20 percent 200lb tub, a high protein feed would be cheaper.

They will utilize the protein in the hay. Adding protein won't increase the value of the hay...only "compliment or supplement" it.

Does 8-11% hay need supplementing?

 

[Isomade]

I wouldn't call 8 to 11 percent hay good hay for cows calving in the winter. They need protein to utilize the hay. Tubs will work but at $90 for a 20 percent 200lb tub, a high protein feed would be cheaper.

They will utilize the protein in the hay. Adding protein won't increase the value of the hay...only "compliment or supplement" it.

Does 8-11% hay need supplementing?

Depends on how much of it you have to feed and if the cows have calves on them.

 

[-XBAR-]

Protein % doesn't increase with volume of feed consumed. Does 8-11% hay need supplemented for lactating cows?

 

[sim.-ang.king]

Protein % doesn't increase with volume of feed consumed. Does 8-11% hay need supplemented for lactating cows?

% doesn't but pounds of protein does increase if they eat more of it. If they are only eating 30 pounds of 8% they will need supp,. if they eat 30 pounds of 11% they really don't need any.

 

[Isomade]

Protein % doesn't increase with volume of feed consumed. Does 8-11% hay need supplemented for lactating cows?

Total protien and TDN sure do. Big difference in limit feeding them 25# day and free choice. There is also a huge difference in 8% and 11%. 8% yes the need a protien suppliment. Of course it also depends on the BCS of the cows. At a BCS of 5.5 with calves on them and free choice 11% no. Way too many variables here to just give a yes or no.

 

[-XBAR-]

I know ISO, I was just picking at TB's definitive response.

Sim - you're right, but a cow has a maximum volume she can consume. I don't think they could eat enough 8% hay to not need supplementation.

On free choice hay, what is the lowest protein % hay could be without having to be supplemented? I only feed hay Dec- march to lactating cows.

 

[sim.-ang.king]

I know ISO, I was just picking at TB's definitive response.

Sim - you're right, but a cow has a maximum volume she can consume. I don't think they could eat enough 8% hay to not need supplementation.

On free choice hay, what is the lowest protein % hay could be without having to be supplemented? I only feed hay Dec- march to lactating cows.

Isn't that what I said?
Here's on pounds of protein needs, and DMI
http://www.vetmed.ucdavis.edu/vetext/IN ... a9911.html

 

[-XBAR-]

I know ISO, I was just picking at TB's definitive response.

Sim - you're right, but a cow has a maximum volume she can consume. I don't think they could eat enough 8% hay to not need supplementation.

On free choice hay, what is the lowest protein % hay could be without having to be supplemented? I only feed hay Dec- march to lactating cows.

Isn't that what I said?
Here's on pounds of protein needs, and DMI
http://www.vetmed.ucdavis.edu/vetext/IN ... a9911.html

No, its not what you said. You made reference to 30lbs. A cow can eat considerably more than that.

Thank you for the link.

 

[sim.-ang.king]

I know ISO, I was just picking at TB's definitive response.

Sim - you're right, but a cow has a maximum volume she can consume. I don't think they could eat enough 8% hay to not need supplementation.

On free choice hay, what is the lowest protein % hay could be without having to be supplemented? I only feed hay Dec- march to lactating cows.

Isn't that what I said?
Here's on pounds of protein needs, and DMI
http://www.vetmed.ucdavis.edu/vetext/IN ... a9911.html

No, its not what you said. You made reference to 30lbs. A cow can eat considerably more than that.

Thank you for the link.

They can also get as little as 5 pounds of hay a day. 30 pounds isn't way out in left field, but it don't matter just do some math and you'll have it all set. :tiphat:

 

[TexasBred]

I know ISO, I was just picking at TB's definitive response.

Sim - you're right, but a cow has a maximum volume she can consume. I don't think they could eat enough 8% hay to not need supplementation.

On free choice hay, what is the lowest protein % hay could be without having to be supplemented? I only feed hay Dec- march to lactating cows.

My response was spot on. Adding anything to the diet does not change the hay.

 

[TexasBred]

I wouldn't call 8 to 11 percent hay good hay for cows calving in the winter. They need protein to utilize the hay. Tubs will work but at $90 for a 20 percent 200lb tub, a high protein feed would be cheaper.

They will utilize the protein in the hay. Adding protein won't increase the value of the hay...only "compliment or supplement" it.

Does 8-11% hay need supplementing?

Only if the the cattle won't eat enough of it and/or the TDN is so low and the NDF so high they are unable to eat what they need to obtain the needed digestible protein.