think you can make a living as a cow-calf man - think again!

[johndeerefarmer]

This months Farm Journal has a chart showing dollars per cow profit for a Kansas cow-calf herd. In 2004, profit was $150 per calf. For 2006 and 2007 expect less than $50 per head profit.

The point is, for all of the beginners you cannot expect to make a living from your small herd. Don't even buy it for that reason. If you love the land and being outside and like an expensive hobby, then by all means buy a piece of land and move to the country. Most beginners have such large expenditures in land, equipment, cattle and supplies that they will be lucky to have ANY profit for the first 10 years much less make a living from the land.

How many of you want to run 300 head and make $15000 year?
You have to love this profession to stay in it...

 

[Beef11]

Small operators typically have higher per cow costs. Big producers have some advantages but many of them are poor managers and only make minimal $$ per cow.

 

[tncattle]

This months Farm Journal has a chart showing dollars per cow profit for a Kansas cow-calf herd. In 2004, profit was $150 per calf. For 2006 and 2007 expect less than $50 per head profit.

The point is, for all of the beginners you cannot expect to make a living from your small herd. Don't even buy it for that reason. If you love the land and being outside and like an expensive hobby, then by all means buy a piece of land and move to the country. Most beginners have such large expenditures in land, equipment, cattle and supplies that they will be lucky to have ANY profit for the first 10 years much less make a living from the land.

How many of you want to run 300 head and make $15000 year?
You have to love this profession to stay in it...

Wow, to think most of our beef we consume comes from people making little to know $. The economy must not be too bad if we have all these people making basically nothing on cattle and continuing to do it. In other words, if they can raise cattle with no profit they must be making good $ from somewhere else. Or a lot of people are living broke and miles and miles in debt. Can you say credit cards? No credit cards for me though.

 

[Beef11]

Most university studies take into account oppritunity costs and therefore give credit where credit is due. Many many cattle outfits don't due this and therefore think they are making much more than they really are. When in reality they are making money off of their land and farming enterprises and giving credit to the cows.

 

[scott wilson]

We've been in the real estate business a for a double handful of years now. I've always figured as long as the rents pay the mortgages (and leaves a little over too) I will get a big pay day when I sell after the notes are paid for (or keep them and live off rents.)
I'm not sure how cattle is much different. If the money is going to pay land mortgages, it will work out. May not be great for cash flow but if it can pay off land………..
People who only have a good paying job will rarely ever have an opportunity to create wealth. I look at that as a multi generation project. I may not be able to it all in my life time but if I can leave my children ahead of where I started then we are making progress.

 

[Cowdirt]

This months Farm Journal has a chart showing dollars per cow profit for a Kansas cow-calf herd. In 2004, profit was $150 per calf. For 2006 and 2007 expect less than $50 per head profit.

The point is, for all of the beginners you cannot expect to make a living from your small herd. Don't even buy it for that reason. If you love the land and being outside and like an expensive hobby, then by all means buy a piece of land and move to the country. Most beginners have such large expenditures in land, equipment, cattle and supplies that they will be lucky to have ANY profit for the first 10 years much less make a living from the land.

How many of you want to run 300 head and make $15000 year?
You have to love this profession to stay in it...

Wow, to think most of our beef we consume comes from people making little to know $. The economy must not be too bad if we have all these people making basically nothing on cattle and continuing to do it. In other words, if they can raise cattle with no profit they must be making good $ from somewhere else. Or a lot of people are living broke and miles and miles in debt. Can you say credit cards? No credit cards for me though.

tncattle, remember several people in response to some of your early posts advised against giving up your day job too soon. Having followed your subsequent posts I truly believe you'd enjoy the cattle business but It's a tough row to hoe for young folks wanting to establish the operation from scratch.

 

[tncattle]

This months Farm Journal has a chart showing dollars per cow profit for a Kansas cow-calf herd. In 2004, profit was $150 per calf. For 2006 and 2007 expect less than $50 per head profit.

The point is, for all of the beginners you cannot expect to make a living from your small herd. Don't even buy it for that reason. If you love the land and being outside and like an expensive hobby, then by all means buy a piece of land and move to the country. Most beginners have such large expenditures in land, equipment, cattle and supplies that they will be lucky to have ANY profit for the first 10 years much less make a living from the land.

How many of you want to run 300 head and make $15000 year?
You have to love this profession to stay in it...

Wow, to think most of our beef we consume comes from people making little to know $. The economy must not be too bad if we have all these people making basically nothing on cattle and continuing to do it. In other words, if they can raise cattle with no profit they must be making good $ from somewhere else. Or a lot of people are living broke and miles and miles in debt. Can you say credit cards? No credit cards for me though.

tncattle, remember several people in response to some of your early posts advised against giving up your day job too soon. Having followed your subsequent posts I truly believe you'd enjoy the cattle business but It's a tough row to hoe for young folks wanting to establish the operation from scratch.

Cowdirt,

We are focusing more on the right kind of land and what a good investment that can be for the future. There are areas close to us that have literally doubled in value in 5 yrs. As they say, no one is making more land. The farm/cattle and whatever else we might do is the way of life we want. We have two good real estate properties now that we will soon sale. Long term goal is to have enough land for our children and their children to farm and live on if they wish. I have made some good contacts and will continue to do that, the info I am getting here and from the contacts is priceless.

 

[medic_941]

if you make and how much money you make in cattle is up to you...its how big you want to get...me and my wife both work other jobs...we run about 30-50 head at any given time and we do make money at it...BUT...the reason we do is cause we choose to stay small...i dont have hay equiment, heck dont even have a tractor...we dont have all the toys that alot of farmers thing they have to have...and the reason is we stay small...we dont want 300 head cause we know we cant afford to raise that many and make the profit.you can get by with alot less then you think...it might mean more work..but it also means more money if your pockets...just my opinion

 

[backhoeboogie]

If the "Average" per head is not enough nickels, best thing to do is keep yourself better than average.

 

[johndeerefarmer]

Doesn't matter if you are above average or not, the point is to let the beginners know that they cannot make a full time living without a HUGE operation.

Do it because you enjoy it, or as a hobby or as a retirement farm, not do it to get rich for it ain't gonna happen

 

[Cowdirt]

This months Farm Journal has a chart showing dollars per cow profit for a Kansas cow-calf herd. In 2004, profit was $150 per calf. For 2006 and 2007 expect less than $50 per head profit.

The point is, for all of the beginners you cannot expect to make a living from your small herd. Don't even buy it for that reason. If you love the land and being outside and like an expensive hobby, then by all means buy a piece of land and move to the country. Most beginners have such large expenditures in land, equipment, cattle and supplies that they will be lucky to have ANY profit for the first 10 years much less make a living from the land.

How many of you want to run 300 head and make $15000 year?
You have to love this profession to stay in it...

Wow, to think most of our beef we consume comes from people making little to know $. The economy must not be too bad if we have all these people making basically nothing on cattle and continuing to do it. In other words, if they can raise cattle with no profit they must be making good $ from somewhere else. Or a lot of people are living broke and miles and miles in debt. Can you say credit cards? No credit cards for me though.

tncattle, remember several people in response to some of your early posts advised against giving up your day job too soon. Having followed your subsequent posts I truly believe you'd enjoy the cattle business but It's a tough row to hoe for young folks wanting to establish the operation from scratch.

Cowdirt,

We are focusing more on the right kind of land and what a good investment that can be for the future. There are areas close to us that have literally doubled in value in 5 yrs. As they say, no one is making more land. The farm/cattle and whatever else we might do is the way of life we want. We have two good real estate properties now that we will soon sale. Long term goal is to have enough land for our children and their children to farm and live on if they wish. I have made some good contacts and will continue to do that, the info I am getting here and from the contacts is priceless.

Well then, tncattle, let's call it what it is then; investing in land. Now that's a whole different ballgame. Money is to be made in land investments. Small cattle operation will not support a family with a decent lifestyle without supplemental income and insurance and other benefits. Still better keep your day job.

 

[badaxemoo]

This months Farm Journal has a chart showing dollars per cow profit for a Kansas cow-calf herd. In 2004, profit was $150 per calf. For 2006 and 2007 expect less than $50 per head profit.

The point is, for all of the beginners you cannot expect to make a living from your small herd. Don't even buy it for that reason. If you love the land and being outside and like an expensive hobby, then by all means buy a piece of land and move to the country. Most beginners have such large expenditures in land, equipment, cattle and supplies that they will be lucky to have ANY profit for the first 10 years much less make a living from the land.

How many of you want to run 300 head and make $15000 year?
You have to love this profession to stay in it...

Trying to have a small, profitable conventional cow-calf herd seems to me to be as challenging as trying to make a profit farming 80 acres of conventional corn and soybeans.

Why not try to find a niche to direct market to and finish animals on your own farm?

In the area I live the demand for organic or sustainably raised pastured meat products is outstripping the supply. I know I can't make a profit at the sale barn, but I am hoping I will be able to be in the black with our beef, pork, and chicken in three more years if my current projections are accurate.

If I'm wrong, the livestock will be leaving the farm. As much as I enjoy having critters, farming without profit is just a hobby, and I think I can find less frustrating ways to spend my leisure time.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Making money off cattle is all about controlling cost on the front end of the operation. This is where many get into trouble as they only look at the salebarn check. Until you can sharpen your pencil and look at the true cost most have no idea what they are making. After years I average 90 cents a day to upkeep a cow and you have to be a Jack of all trades.

 

[Susie David]

Ninety cents...wow. After all the figuring and pencil work the best that we have done so far is $1.14 per day. We'll see how this next year goes...if I can get the hay costs down we may be able to shave a few cents off the cob. Sales are up and get new customers all the time.
And I wanted to retire after the grandkids get their club calves finished in a few years....will breed the grand mothers this spring.
DMc

 

[Caustic Burno]

Ninety cents...wow. After all the figuring and pencil work the best that we have done so far is $1.14 per day. We'll see how this next year goes...if I can get the hay costs down we may be able to shave a few cents off the cob. Sales are up and get new customers all the time.
And I wanted to retire after the grandkids get their club calves finished in a few years....will breed the grand mothers this spring.
DMc

Daily average temp is 67 degs here long growing season, short hay season.

 

[Wewild]

Making money off cattle is all about controlling cost on the front end of the operation. This is where many get into trouble as they only look at the salebarn check. Until you can sharpen your pencil and look at the true cost most have no idea what they are making. After years I average 90 cents a day to upkeep a cow and you have to be a Jack of all trades.

Good post.

The back side of the process offers more as well as the front side.

The business isn't just about input cost. It improves from there as others have said about uniform lot size, cattle type and many other variable.

 

[hersh]

This months Farm Journal has a chart showing dollars per cow profit for a Kansas cow-calf herd. In 2004, profit was $150 per calf. For 2006 and 2007 expect less than $50 per head profit.

Is this the net profit, after the gross was whittled down by depreciations, home office, mileage..etc?

Cattle is supplemental at best, I like the earlier post that refered to it as land investment.

 

[Wewild]

Cattle is supplemental at best, I like the earlier post that refered to it as land investment.

I have seen it successfully supplement row crops as the workers need year round work and I've seen folks make a living with it with their wife supplementing it.. Most of the latter are renting the land as the land owners tried to hold on.

 

[BTRANCH]

This is probably gonna make Caustic's head spin, but I don't expect to make a true profit for at least 10 years. We are still building our herd up, but my next goal is 10 calves per year to sell. I am using $500 as a reasonable sale price. This $5,000 will offset my feed costs and pay the taxes on my land. This does nothing to recover the cost of my tractor, trailer, fencing, pens, and other misc equipment. I am not even talking about my land costs.

I have decided this cow business is the most expensive hobby I could have picked. Whoever said you have to spend money to make money was not in the cattle business. For all the money I have spent, I should be a millionaire. :lol:

 

[backhoeboogie]

This is probably gonna make Caustic's head spin,

You have Caustic all wrong IMHO.

If you are taking your profit, all of it, and putting it back into your operation, you are building equity. If you have no profit, and you are not building equity, you are totally wasting your time. If you have no profit, are not building equity, and you are putting in more income from other sources to finance your operation, you are in pretty bad shape and should find yourself a better hobby.

My guess is that you are building equity and not taking profits because you don't have to.