The Trouble with Curved chutes/races

[grubbie]

I have used both straight and curved alleys. Funny thing about both,....if they can't get over the top, and can't get turned around, a buzz in the ass with a hotshot gets them moving forward, whether in a curve or in a straight line. Eventually, they will get to the chute.

 

[IluvABbeef]

So now, after reading your thoughts and opinions, it all comes down to personal preference??

Jim, hate to burst your bubble, but this is coming from someone with a PhD that DOES know how to work cattle and obviously has worked them many times before.

I also agree with those of you that cattle tend to move towards a "hole" or where they can actually see their route of escape.

But even then it also depends on the individual cattle: there can be some absolute air-heads that will try to go over or stop or turn around in either a straight or curved race.

Henceforth the debate continues....

There's no question that teachers in universities have a great influence over their students but there is an old saying that goes something like this: Those that can, do; those that can't, teach.

If I were to ask a question on a controversial subject of a professer and a lay person with thirty years experience I would take the answer from the lay person in a heart beat over the professor.

Now if you were to ask two different lay persons, and get two different answers, who do you believe then?

Your "expert" was expressing his opinion, I presume, and you seemed to be accepting that opinion as the gospel according to Phd. A tremendous amount of research has been done on this issue, and as far as I know, it's pretty nearly unanimous that curved alleys and chutes are the way to go because this format takes advantage of the natural behaviour of cattle.

My recommendation would be that when you start up your operation and build your working facilities, that you just build them however YOU want them. Fair enough?

My "expert", as you seem to like to call him, based his opinion on what he observed. I don't make it a thing of me to accept an opinion of someone based on the so-called "gospel" according to PhD. (At least, I'll admit I TRY not to.) And yes, I clearly understand that there has been a lot of research done on this, but the nearly unanimous part of it is what has to be considered.

So, as you say, you go with what you have, and I'll go with mine.

 

[IluvABbeef]

Before I forget...

Generally folks post something like this to generate discussion and share opinions. So with that, I'd like to say thanks for that. As usual.

 

[MikeC]

Dr. Temple Grandin:

"Curved vs. Straight
Round crowd pens and curved single file chutes work better than straight ones, but they must be laid out correctly.
A curved chute works more efficiently than a straight one because it prevents cattle from seeing people and other activities at the end of the chute."

 

[ArmyDoc]

Our working facilities are similar too, as in a crowding tub into a short straight alley just before the squeeze chute. Our squeeze chute is longer because it has a palp cage too. This set up has worked extremely well for us and can also be used by just one person if necessary. Occassionally a cow or calf will balk just before the squeeze chute (most often if one isn't pushing from behind); but, usually with a bit of encouragement (from the outside) clicking noises, tail twisting, or a pitch fork (we don't use a hot shot) will usually get them to go. Calves will sometimes turn around in the straight away, but it is easy enough to turn them back in the tub. We like the short straight alley before the chute. When we are synch'ing for AI and are removing CIDRs and giving injections it works very fast to line several up from the chute to the alley and work 3 or 4 in a row without having to individually catch them. Also it can give a "balker" a chance to view the head gate opening - and you a really good chance of catching them if they try and run/jump through the headgate. Our facilities are also very tall and our straight alley also has a supporting over head "U" to tie the sides together and prevent a jumper (although we cull for dispositions, so the nervous ones don't tend to stay very long). Our squeeze chute is also portable, so we can disconnect it from the alley too. We built our facility from scratch and used all pipe - (posts too). We have not yet had anything "challenge" it. Ours was built from our experiences and seeing others' facilities too. Initially we even used some T-posts and cattle panels to see if an additional alleyway and pen was something that would be useful (in that area). Ours is still a work in progress and we also had to work within our physical constraints - building location, land slope, and current fences. Our squeeze area is under a lean to of our the barn so we didn't have room for a curve after the tub. Our tub is accessible from the working corral and also a panel change away from moving a cow from the barn into the chute. We have lights available to shine on the alley in case of night usage (calf pulling, etc).

If you don't mind, could you post a picture or a diagram? Thanks

 

[Earl Thigpen]

Before I forget...

Generally folks post something like this to generate discussion and share opinions. So with that, I'd like to say thanks for that. As usual.

You're quite welcome and thanks for bringing this subject up. Opinions are like elboes, everybody's got at least one. :lol:

Professors are people too. And they also have elboes. The problem is that their heads are so big from ego that they peach their opinions to young, impressionable people as if it were the only way to do things and that's where I have a problem.

Keep an open mind, finish school and then do what works best for you.

 

[IluvABbeef]

Before I forget...

Generally folks post something like this to generate discussion and share opinions. So with that, I'd like to say thanks for that. As usual.

You're quite welcome and thanks for bringing this subject up. Opinions are like elboes, everybody's got at least one. :lol:

Professors are people too. And they also have elboes. The problem is that their heads are so big from ego that they peach their opinions to young, impressionable people as if it were the only way to do things and that's where I have a problem.

Keep an open mind, finish school and then do what works best for you.

 

[TheBullLady]

Interestingly, you need to take into consideration the temperment of your cattle as well. My cows are more willing to follow me or come towards me, then they will go into a "blind" aisle, which will stop them. If I stand in front of the chute, they'll come right in. *generally*