The reality of it ( bull buyers)

[JHH]

I have been paying very close attention to the bull market. I have seen time and again this last fall and this spring the tallest,fattest,no guts,no butts, bring more than any of the others. Because they had a feed bucket straped to their head and had such and such ratio for gain. I dont get it.

Dont get me wrong, they look good. But I bet most wont perform good. Any insight here?

Just like on the other thread about birthweight ( 9.6) If you had a bull that was a frame 7-8 and was rolly polly fat,waddled when he walked but gained over 4 lbs a day he would top the sale around here.

On a better note. The market must be saturated with black cows and bulls because more and more people have been going to a herf bull on those black cows. On the down side of that the bull customers are picking the tall harder doing type , just like I was just ranting about.

I still havent changed my mind. MODERATE,MODERATE,MODERATE.

If I am missing something tell me.

I am still very new to this and young (40)to make things worse.

 

[deenranch]

have seen time and again this last fall and this spring the tallest,fattest,no guts,no butts, bring more than any of the others. Because they had a feed bucket straped to their head and had such and such ratio

I agree with you about the fat bulls... But if you go buy a bull that wasn't fed up and had a ww of 400# your calves wouldn't do any good either... If you buy a bull in good shape with a 600# ww you are doing good.. If I have a customer come to my house and pick out a bull he is gonna pick out the fattest bull there... He can go home and brag about his good looking bull... If you come buy a bull that is not in good shape then you aren't gonna tell anyone about him... So the fat bull sells because he looks good and makes the customer happy...

I try to keep my bulls in shape for turn out after they are a year old... they do get fed good until that time.... Lets them deposit muscle and grow the frame that their genetics allow them to...

It's the same with females... Fat, pretty, shiny cattle sell better...

 

[1914 Hereford]

JHH,

Nope, you aren't crazy. Sounds like you are thinking along the right track. We do try to keep our herd bulls in good shape, which isn't difficult because of their type, and bred in doing ability. It seems that a good looking herd bull can really help sell his sons. We have found that the moderate cattle are the most efficient cattle.

 

[WichitaLineMan]

JHH, you are on the right track. Human nature is hard to overcome. Every logical cattleman knows that moderate framed middle of the road cattle work the best in the most environments but some people just cant resist buy the tallest fattest bull possible. Some of them are smart enough to know better and some are just plain ignorant.

 

[VLS_GUY]

JHH,

Remember you have to be in it for the long haul. The guys producing fed in EPDs and performance numbers won't be around once the buyers get the cattle home and they get found out. If you can produce superior performance in a commercial environment eventually people will notice your cattle are still around when the others have been shipped that is when you get a reputation you can market on.

 

[Northern Rancher]

I haven't seen that because I don't buy bulls from outfits that raise them that way-if your going to buy bulls from a feed bucket outfit you may as well as buy a fat one-if you buy a thin one that's been fed like that he's even more sorry.

 

[KNERSIE]

All you can do as a breeder is to make sure you breed the right type, have your bulls (and the rest of the herd) in a presentable condition and sell bulls at a price where they are hard to overlook. As soon as you genetics starts proving itself and you get return customers you are well on your way to making successfull bull sales without going against your beliefs on how to raise them.

 

[Aaron]

I haven't seen that because I don't buy bulls from outfits that raise them that way-if your going to buy bulls from a feed bucket outfit you may as well as buy a fat one-if you buy a thin one that's been fed like that he's even more sorry.

I agree, as usual .

 

[SRBeef]

I have been paying very close attention to the bull market. I have seen time and again this last fall and this spring the tallest,fattest,no guts,no butts, bring more than any of the others. Because they had a feed bucket straped to their head and had such and such ratio for gain. I dont get it.

Dont get me wrong, they look good. But I bet most wont perform good. Any insight here?

Just like on the other thread about birthweight ( 9.6) If you had a bull that was a frame 7-8 and was rolly polly fat,waddled when he walked but gained over 4 lbs a day he would top the sale around here.

On a better note. The market must be saturated with black cows and bulls because more and more people have been going to a herf bull on those black cows. On the down side of that the bull customers are picking the tall harder doing type , just like I was just ranting about.

I still havent changed my mind. MODERATE,MODERATE,MODERATE.

If I am missing something tell me.

I am still very new to this and young (40)to make things worse.

I think the truth comes out eventually.

I am still very much a beginner at this. However I am thankful that Jerry Huth fixed me up with a good GRASS bull. Some things you buy, the more you know about them the less you like them. Some purchases the more you know about them the better you like them - this bull is one of the latter.

Not a stuffed meat wagon but fits my needs and seems to sire calves that are BETTER than he is. Here is one of his calves from this spring at 7 weeks old:

Just keep producing, recommending and selling bulls that you know are the kind that work for your customers' needs. They will figure out that you are correct in the long run. It just takes awhile.

I travel a lot on business and I see the same thing you do - much more interest in putting Hereford bulls on black and other cows.

jmho. Jim

 

[JHH]

All you can do as a breeder is to make sure you breed the right type, have your bulls (and the rest of the herd) in a presentable condition and sell bulls at a price where they are hard to overlook. As soon as you genetics starts proving itself and you get return customers you are well on your way to making successfull bull sales without going against your beliefs on how to raise them.

That is what I hope for. I havent sold any bulls or have any to sell right now. I dont believe I have a good enough one YET. I am looking forward for two calves yet this year and then next year. I have two cows that should produce something worth selling and be acceptable. Time will tell.

 

[JHH]

Jim your bull looks good as does the calf. It helps to have some insight when your just starting out.

 

[40-4171]

I can remember Dad having this conversation a few times. People talking about sale bulls being overfed and fall apart the first breeding season. He always said I understand customers don't want bulls that are fed, but just try to sell one that is not in good condition. It's pretty difficult to get that done. I want to see a bull that is taken care of but not over fed.

 

[DOC HARRIS]

I can remember Dad having this conversation a few times. People talking about sale bulls being overfed and fall apart the first breeding season. He always said I understand customers don't want bulls that are fed, but just try to sell one that is not in good condition. It's pretty difficult to get that done. I want to see a bull that is taken care of but not over fed.

40-4171- Your comment "taken care of but not over fed" is significant in most conversations concerning the "condition" of breeding stock. It is easy to say, and easy to think that you understand the degree of "finish" that is optimal for a breeding animal, but the "window" of perfection is very narrow, and you are going to have a difficult time fitting your breeding stock in that optimal window. The fact that you recognize the importance of, and the necessity of doing the things to achieve that optimal condition tells me that you understand the importance of it all, and are willing to learn and study the factors which dictate the ultimate results. THAT is what makes a "Stockman", and achieves success in the beef business!

You keep that attitude and you will be an achiever!

DOC HARRIS

 

[Northern Rancher]

There is alot of ground between starved out and castrated with a feed bucket.

 

[40-4171]

I can remember Dad having this conversation a few times. People talking about sale bulls being overfed and fall apart the first breeding season. He always said I understand customers don't want bulls that are fed, but just try to sell one that is not in good condition. It's pretty difficult to get that done. I want to see a bull that is taken care of but not over fed.

40-4171- Your comment "taken care of but not over fed" is significant in most conversations concerning the "condition" of breeding stock. It is easy to say, and easy to think that you understand the degree of "finish" that is optimal for a breeding animal, but the "window" of perfection is very narrow, and you are going to have a difficult time fitting your breeding stock in that optimal window. The fact that you recognize the importance of, and the necessity of doing the things to achieve that optimal condition tells me that you understand the importance of it all, and are willing to learn and study the factors which dictate the ultimate results. THAT is what makes a "Stockman", and achieves success in the beef business!

You keep that attitude and you will be an achiever!

DOC HARRIS

Thanks Doc. I'm no expert, but I know what I like!!

 

[Aero]

Dont get me wrong, they look good. But I bet most wont perform good. Any insight here?

don't tell people about this... this phenomenon lets people like you and me get a decent deal on a fine bull later in the sale.

 

[40-4171]

The breeders know their good ones. That is why they sell them at the front or near the front of the sale.
The good cowmen ( the ones with proven programs and quality) who purchase private treaty always want to be the first to pick their bulls and they show up as soon as the bulls are ready.

 

[Northern Rancher]

Good breeders sell the good ones first and the poor ones NEVER!!!

 

[40-4171]

Dad always went through his weaners the next spring and used the knife on those that were not up to his standards. He always said the world is full of good cattle, why would you want to propogate a sorry one.

 

[dun]

Dad always went through his weaners the next spring and used the knife on those that were not up to his standards. He always said the world is full of good cattle, why would you want to propogate a sorry one.

Sadly the most underused managment tool for a lot of breeders is the knife.