The farther North you go, the better the commerical cattle?

[ollie']

I agree Annie.

 

[BA]

By saying that the calving ease bulls are gaining well on test I am not saying to use 55-65 lbs. bulls on cows.

I'm saying that in the Angus breed you don't have to have bulls that are +4 BW to get performance. You can look all through the sire summaries and see bulls with a BW of 2 and less with more performance than is needed. Red Angus is the same way. Why use the +5 bulls to get the same weaning weight as a 0 BW bull?

Another annoying thing is looking through a catalog of bulls with 90-95 birth weights saying that they are recommended for heifers. Anyone ever notice that 99% of the bred heifers sold are bred to a low bw Angus or Red Angus bull. I've looked through countless catalogs and there arent' that many true calving ease being sold.

 

[Arnold Ziffle]

Sad to say, but there are still too many cattle roaming around in the south that are inbred for generations, not linebred. Relatively poorer forage quality, overstocking, many small herd guys and hobbyists that merely do enough to just get by, physiological factors expressed by Bergman's law, etc. all play a role in why many southern cattle are lacking, in my view.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

Sad to say, but there are still too many cattle roaming around in the south that are inbred for generations, not linebred. Relatively poorer forage quality, overstocking, many small herd guys and hobbyists that merely do enough to just get by, physiological factors expressed by Bergman's law, etc. all play a role in why many southern cattle are lacking, in my view.

nothing a good bull and a little fertilizer can't overcome and the bad part of it its that simple.the other aspects are the hard part.

 

[la4angus]

Cattle Annie, Your early morning post's seem to get better all the time. This one should be read by most cattle raisers in the south.

 

[BRG]

Not just the south. It seems to be an on-going deal throughout the industry.

You won't find it at my place though!

 

[D.R. Cattle]

I've just seen a lot of pointy & slope ass cattle in my area that are as different as people are in JFK internatioal airport. No consistency. No muscling.

It may be that there are just more small farm operations in the south.

It depends on what your idea of "The South" is too. As far as climates and forage are concerned, places like Tennessee, North Carolina and Kentucky are not really considered South. The family I work for have bought over a hundred 2 year old Red Angus bulls in the last year, nearly all of them coming from Kentucky, Tennessee, Georgia, etc. Only a dozen or so came from out West. And I must say they are some darn fine looking critters too. They have a lot of trouble acclimating to our subtropical climate and lower quality forages. Breed ups are fairly low the first year and they lose weight, but I'm told they eventually pull out. It's yet to be seen by me. Also, for what it's worth, I can't speak for other states, but Florida has very few "Small" operations but several very large operations nowadays.

 

[D.R. Cattle]

Sad to say, but there are still too many cattle roaming around in the south that are inbred for generations, not linebred. Relatively poorer forage quality, overstocking, many small herd guys and hobbyists that merely do enough to just get by, physiological factors expressed by Bergman's law, etc. all play a role in why many southern cattle are lacking, in my view.

You can say that again.

 

[memanpa]

In my limited travels, I've noticed that the further north you go; the better the cattle get. Am I alone here?

Now I'm talking commercial cattle. Is it the long ear influence in the south? Is there anyone that has noticed this.

What has Tapeworm been saying and some has been on his butt like white on rice.

hey la4angus STILL l hiding behind momma"s skirts?
not man enough to admit thatyou are wrong?not man enough man enough to admit you FALSELY ACCUSED ME?
step up big guy PROVE IT
oh gosh after the pm/si have gotten from him i do not think he has the nerve!
step up big guy!!! explain some of the statements you have made!!
NEVER MIND ya can't

 

[D.R. Cattle]

Huh?

 

[Anonymous]

I have three sale barns within, 30 minutes of my place. one in VA one in MD and one in PA. You probably won't believe me but, there are cattlle buyers that buy at the sale in VA and MD and then the next First Friday of the month you will see the same cattle being sold for 20-30cents higher per pound and then they are sent out west. I attend every sale in the winter and let me tell you I have seen it a hundred times. What I don't get is how in the world you can pay 1.60/lb. for black hided cattle, ship 'em out west and fed em out and then make a profit. I guess this goes along with the topic, if not let me know. Went to a sale in tenesse and the bulls there looked not nearly as good compared to bulls here on grass hay only and I know that they were being fed good.

 

[SPRINGER FARMS MURRAY GRE]

I don't have a dog in this fight,and don't want to start anything....BUT.....all this being said, what about the breeds that are common in the south AND the north? The animals I have seen from further north do not look any better than the ones we have here. The secret is choosing a breed that consistently demonstrates excellent feed conversion and is adaptable to different climates.Murray Grey cattle are good examples of this and can be found thriving from south america all the way up into Canada.( Anyone needing any bulls or heifers? ;-) ) ;-) :cboy:

 

[joe]

I am in the "north", and we say "west river" cattle are better around here

 

[andybob]

I certainly agree that using breeds adapted to the southern climates will go a long way to improving the quality of the southern cattle herd as a whole. Add to this a good crossbreeding programme, and the best of both worlds; easy care, adapted breeding herd; with tailor made terminals for the market requirements for your area. Using a different breed bull to 'open' hiefers will eliminate the problems stated earlier, as the hybrids will not affect the quality of the purebred herd,they will either be sold or retained as commercial stock and not 'weaken' the herd phenotype.

 

[Beef11]

I agree with the eventual breeding down of cattle through selecting for low BWs. However a curvebender in this situation would fix the problem. Most curvebenders sire calves that are born sooner equaling a shorter gestation. It seems to be an economic situation if you figure in all the time spent pulling calves, the loss due to stress and death, as well as lost reproductive effiency of people using a bull that is a little bigger at birth. Is it really worth it? Calving ease bulls are a valid option on mature cow herds. They can make a very viable stand for themselves and may not weigh as much at weaning but there might be more of them. I guess you could gate cut your herd and run 2 different programs for five years and see which one brings in the most centavos.

 

[BRG]

When I was talking about calving ease sires I meant heifer bulls on mature cows. I agree you don't want to use bulls that you will be pulling calves out of mature cows. That is just nuts to do. But I mean you can use the 80 to 90 lbs sires instead of those 60 to 75 lbs bulls. Any mature cow will have a 90lbs calf unless something is wrong(leg back, backwards, etc.) If she can't she probably shouldn't still be around. Now figure just the extra 10 lbs alone. 10 more lbs at weaning at todays market is about $13 a head more income. Put that on a potload of calves and it about $1300 extra. This extra income doesn't even include the extra performance you are going to get from a cow bull instead of a heifer bull.

OK yes you say their are the outliers that will do both, give you little calves at birth and have great performance, but those are few ard far in between all the other bulls out there, and you really don't know who they are at bull buying time because most bulls sold are virgins. The EPDs might say they are, but I have seen bw EPDs change 5 points in one year.

 

[KMacGinley]

As you go further North, living organisms, like civilizations and cattle, must become more vigorus to survive. Deer are larger bodied in Canada than in Texas, simply due to metabolic differences involved in keeping warm. People need to work harder in the north, merely to keep warm. Hence, the marked contrast in productivity between North and south,(note the result of the civil war.) Most third world countries lie along the equator. Therefore it is no wonder that the cattle in the north are so superior to southern cattle.

 

[NOPLCLKNEB]

I'm not trying to make anyone mad, but I went to a wedding in Ada Oklahoma last may and driving through Oklahoma my wife and I were amazed at the low quality of most of the cattle, not all of the cattle but most. Nothing compaired to the quality of cattle in Nebraska and South Dakota. I wondered why it was that way and it seemed to me that there were a whole bunch of cattle producers that just had cattle to keep the grass down on their 20 acres and not in it for a living. Here in Nebraska most cattle herds are part of the bottom line for a farming operation, and we also have the Sandhills region, which in my opinion, the ranches there produce the best cattle in the world. Not trying to start a fight, just an opinion.

 

[mtnman]

BRG:

Do you kow of anybody with 571 semen? The boys around my area like him in the rough country.

Most others are too big, and some like Cherokee Canyon are too tight-wound to cover ground.

mtnman

 

[houstoncutter]

Easy way to solve this debate, I think I can come up with one of those sorry mutt F-1's heifers outa the herd. Yall come up with one of those great northern bred Black Angus or Red Angus commercial types. Will swap, Ill keep your animal and you keep mine, and in 3 years we will see who has the animal that makes the most money. Keep in mind, I aint gonna give it any sack feed or baby it. Its gotta make it on the poor quality grass, that we have most of the year. It will get clover and ryegrass in the spring. Its gotta put up with the bugs and the 100% humidity that we have here on a regular basis. Any up for this....Come on dont be shy