Tetanus vaccine and banding

[sstterry]

I know that you should give a tetanus vaccination and last booster at least two weeks before banding. But, has anyone given the tetanus anti-toxin and the toxoid at the time of banding? It is my understanding that the anti-toxin would give about 7-10 days of protection and then the toxoid would be ramping up at about 14 days. By that time the risk of tetanus would hopefully be declining.

To get proper protection, it would require working the bull calves at least 3 times over the course of a month which is just not feasible for me. Am I totally off base here? I am amazed at the number of people in my area that simply give an 8way at the same time as banding and thinking that they are protected.

 

[Lucky_P]

You could do it that way, but i wouldn't count on the single dose of TT providing protection - the label recommendation for a booster dose is not there just so they can sell more vaccine... it's required in order to get adequate protection.

Folks are often quite lucky... some band with no thought or attention to tetanus... and skate freely with no problems... but I've seen some real trainwrecks with significant death losses.

 

[sstterry]

You could do it that way, but i wouldn't count on the single dose of TT providing protection - the label recommendation for a booster dose is not there just so they can sell more vaccine... it's required in order to get adequate protection.

Folks are often quite lucky... some band with no thought or attention to tetanus... and skate freely with no problems... but I've seen some real trainwrecks with significant death losses.

Are there any Tetanus Toxoid vaccines that don't require a booster?

 

[elkwc]

I know that you should give a tetanus vaccination and last booster at least two weeks before banding. But, has anyone given the tetanus anti-toxin and the toxoid at the time of banding? It is my understanding that the anti-toxin would give about 7-10 days of protection and then the toxoid would be ramping up at about 14 days. By that time the risk of tetanus would hopefully be declining.

To get proper protection, it would require working the bull calves at least 3 times over the course of a month which is just not feasible for me. Am I totally off base here? I am amazed at the number of people in my area that simply give an 8way at the same time as banding and thinking that they are protected.

I had the same questions when I started considering bands. Everyone had a different opinion so talked to a few vets. One vet don't even feel it is necessary as long as you don't slit the bag. The others said 8 way would be enough and one of them said not to slit the bag. That if you were going too you would need to give a tetanus shot before. The only issue I know of around here was when the bags were slit.

I'm knocking on wood but so far o issues.

 

[Bright Raven]

You could do it that way, but i wouldn't count on the single dose of TT providing protection - the label recommendation for a booster dose is not there just so they can sell more vaccine... it's required in order to get adequate protection.

Folks are often quite lucky... some band with no thought or attention to tetanus... and skate freely with no problems... but I've seen some real trainwrecks with significant death losses.

Are there any Tetanus Toxoid vaccines that don't require a booster?

All the TT vaccines that come to mind require two shots on initial vaccination to achieve the desired immunity.

Tetanus is caused by a Clostridial bacteria so it often comes in a combo ( 6 way, 7 way, 8 way, etc) as a "blackleg" vaccine. For example, Covexin 8 covers the Clostridium tetani species.

 

[Bright Raven]

Steve you might consider this plan:

Use Covexin 8 or other Clostridial that includes a TT component. Vaccinate the calves at about 8 weeks, band on the second vaccination at 14 weeks. By the time the bands would be at risk of causing an infection, the second TT will have elicited immunity.

 

[Dempster]

The risk of tetanus when banding young calves at birth or branding time is much less then when banding a 500+ pound calf of weaning age or after. I probably wouldn't give anything for tetanus to a calf when banding at birth, and would be inclined to not do anything at branding time either. If you really want to play it safe, you could give all your bull calves a covexin or cavalry at birth and booster that dose at branding time and band then. However, most people could probably go a lifetime banding calved at branding and never see a tetanus case, especially if they domt have a history of tetanus on their farm before.

A single dose of tetanus toxoid at the time of banding probably does nothing to prevent tetanus. If you band a lot of larger calves and want protection, you need to find a way to at least get a dose in a month prior to working them. Additionally, if you are routinely banding a lot of weaning age or older calves, you need to make production changes to get these calves castrated sooner. Unless you are raising seed stock and making choices on which bulls to keep, I don't think there is any excuse to be banding most of your calves at weaning time.

 

[elkwc]

The question I have is I can get a single tetanus shot for myself and I've been told it is good for several years. Why is 2 necessary for a calf. I've had vets tell me that in their opinion one shot is enough as long as you don't slit the bag. The bands we use the calf needs to be at least 300 lbs. Some of our pastures don't have pens so if a calf is born after we turn out they won't be worked until we gather in the fall. Everyone has different situations and some don't allow for penning.

 

[wbvs58]

The question I have is I can get a single tetanus shot for myself and I've been told it is good for several years. Why is 2 necessary for a calf. I've had vets tell me that in their opinion one shot is enough as long as you don't slit the bag. The bands we use the calf needs to be at least 300 lbs. Some of our pastures don't have pens so if a calf is born after we turn out they won't be worked until we gather in the fall. Everyone has different situations and some don't allow for penning.

As far as your tetanus shot goes you had your primary vaccination as a baby and any subsequent ones are just a toxoid to which you respond very rapidly and that booster immunity stays high for several years, probably longer as they are cutting back on giving us boosters now.

As far as giving the TAT and TT together at time of castration, that is fine and is what I have done forever when treating horses of unknown vaccination status with open wounds forever. I do believe that active immunity from a completed vaccination program is better than the passive immunity from antitoxin.

Ken

 

[Dempster]

The question I have is I can get a single tetanus shot for myself and I've been told it is good for several years. Why is 2 necessary for a calf. I've had vets tell me that in their opinion one shot is enough as long as you don't slit the bag. The bands we use the calf needs to be at least 300 lbs. Some of our pastures don't have pens so if a calf is born after we turn out they won't be worked until we gather in the fall. Everyone has different situations and some don't allow for penning.

You can get a bag of green doughnut bands and a tool to put them on for less then $15, will handle any of your calves too small for your other banded. I don't think not having the proper equipment is a good reason to wait and put calves through the stress of being banded at 600 pounds.

Your vet is misinformed if he thinks a dose of toxoid at banding time helps. It has long been industry standard to just do the one dose at banding, and I would give it if I had one that I had to band without the opportunity to do an earlier dose, but it will provide no benefit.

 

[elkwc]

The question I have is I can get a single tetanus shot for myself and I've been told it is good for several years. Why is 2 necessary for a calf. I've had vets tell me that in their opinion one shot is enough as long as you don't slit the bag. The bands we use the calf needs to be at least 300 lbs. Some of our pastures don't have pens so if a calf is born after we turn out they won't be worked until we gather in the fall. Everyone has different situations and some don't allow for penning.[/quote

There have been 3 vets tell me that and they are all well respected and have large practices and so far what they have said has worked and I'm not going too change unless something happens. I won't use the green doughnuts. Have seen too many issues. I'll knife cut before then. We banded some 6 weight calves and they continued like nothing ever happened. They continued to gain the whole time.

You can get a bag of green doughnut bands and a tool to put them on for less then $15, will handle any of your calves too small for your other banded. I don't think not having the proper equipment is a good reason to wait and put calves through the stress of being banded at 600 pounds.

Your vet is misinformed if he thinks a dose of toxoid at banding time helps. It has long been industry standard to just do the one dose at banding, and I would give it if I had one that I had to band without the opportunity to do an earlier dose, but it will provide no benefit.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Since my husband died, we have been banding 90% of our bull calves at birth using the little green bands. Zero problems with them. Always keep my fingers crossed not problem with tetanus since there is no way of doing it at birth and having protection. We give nothing for it at that time. We do give an 8-way later on.
If Lucky_P gets back on, I am interested to know if I was told right. I was always told the rubber band is the problem that causes/lets the tetanus get started (moisture). Also, I was told that if you have horses on your farm, there is a higher chance of tetanus being on your land.

 

[Bright Raven]

Since my husband died, we have been banding 90% of our bull calves at birth using the little green bands. Zero problems with them. Always keep my fingers crossed not problem with tetanus since there is no way of doing it at birth and having protection. We give nothing for it at that time. We do give an 8-way later on.
If Lucky_P gets back on, I am interested to know if I was told right. I was always told the rubber band is the problem that causes/lets the tetanus get started (moisture). Also, I was told that if you have horses on your farm, there is a higher chance of tetanus being on your land.

The band restricts blood flow to the tissues of the scrotum and testes. Including stopping flow of the testicular artery. That causes necrosis and leads to breaks in the skin's defenses. Tetani bacteria are ubiquitous. Especially in manure, soil, dirt, debris, etc. So the rubber band is the cause - it leads to strangulation at the top of the scrotum which puts the whole process in motion. I have never heard the moisture being a factor. Lucky can address that. I don't see any connection to horses being a factor.

If everything goes well, what I often see is a mummified scrotum without any significant necrosis.

 

[JMJ Farms]

Since my husband died, we have been banding 90% of our bull calves at birth using the little green bands. Zero problems with them. Always keep my fingers crossed not problem with tetanus since there is no way of doing it at birth and having protection. We give nothing for it at that time. We do give an 8-way later on.
If Lucky_P gets back on, I am interested to know if I was told right. I was always told the rubber band is the problem that causes/lets the tetanus get started (moisture). Also, I was told that if you have horses on your farm, there is a higher chance of tetanus being on your land.

The band restricts blood flow to the tissues of the scrotum and testes. Including stopping flow of the testicular artery. That causes necrosis and leads to breaks in the skin's defenses. Tetani bacteria are ubiquitous. Especially in manure, soil, dirt, debris, etc. So the rubber band is the cause - it leads to strangulation at the top of the scrotum which puts the whole process in motion. I have never heard the moisture being a factor. Lucky can address that. I don't see any connection to horses being a factor.

I've heard of horses being a factor in increasing risk of tetanus. Don't know if this is correct or not, but I've heard of it.

 

[Bright Raven]

Since my husband died, we have been banding 90% of our bull calves at birth using the little green bands. Zero problems with them. Always keep my fingers crossed not problem with tetanus since there is no way of doing it at birth and having protection. We give nothing for it at that time. We do give an 8-way later on.
If Lucky_P gets back on, I am interested to know if I was told right. I was always told the rubber band is the problem that causes/lets the tetanus get started (moisture). Also, I was told that if you have horses on your farm, there is a higher chance of tetanus being on your land.

The band restricts blood flow to the tissues of the scrotum and testes. Including stopping flow of the testicular artery. That causes necrosis and leads to breaks in the skin's defenses. Tetani bacteria are ubiquitous. Especially in manure, soil, dirt, debris, etc. So the rubber band is the cause - it leads to strangulation at the top of the scrotum which puts the whole process in motion. I have never heard the moisture being a factor. Lucky can address that. I don't see any connection to horses being a factor.

I've heard of horses being a factor in increasing risk of tetanus. Don't know if this is correct or not, but I've heard of it.

I hope Lucky does address that. I cannot think of any epidemiological connection. Tetani is not a communicable infection. It is simply widespread in the environment.

 

[Bright Raven]

This relates to human exposure but seems applicable.

The bacterium that causes tetanus, Clostridium tetani, lives in soil and commonly present in the environment. The more environmental exposure that you have (especially to soil), the greater your risk of exposure to C. tetani. Being around horses doesn't increase your risk any more than doing other things outside.

https://www.google.com/search?q=does+ho ... e&ie=UTF-8

 

[wbvs58]

Ron, I may be wrong but my from my memory tetanus organisms live in the gut of many animals and this may be where the horses are incriminated. The faeces of animals contain the spores which contaminate the ground. Tetanus is an anaerobic bacteria so likes deep puncture wounds with surrounding tissue bruised hence minimal blood supply and low oxygen. In a situation with banding I do not think conditions are favourable for tetanus, the strangulated bit drops off and the torniquet effect will not allow tetanus toxins into the blood supply and when the scrotum falls off the small wound is fairly open with good oxygen and not conducive for tetanus to survive. Passive immunity from colostrum may also help with banding at birth.

I have said this several times on CT, tetanus spores can enter a body through a vascular wound which does not favour the spores to multiply and they just sit in the likes of muscle tissue for several months and then say a horse gets transported loose in a truck with other horses and bruising of that muscle occurs creating a lower oxygen environment for the spores then they multiply and you get full blown tetanus. I have seen this a couple of occaisions.

FWIW, my FIL had several horses with tetanus over a short period of time (he was a horse trader) and he always blamed the ducks he had swimming and walking around his dam. When he got rid of the ducks the tetanus cases disappeared.

Ken

 

[Bright Raven]

Ron, I may be wrong but my from my memory tetanus organisms live in the gut of many animals and this may be where the horses are incriminated. The faeces of animals contain the spores which contaminate the ground. Tetanus is an anaerobic bacteria so likes deep puncture wounds with surrounding tissue bruised hence minimal blood supply and low oxygen. In a situation with banding I do not think conditions are favourable for tetanus, the strangulated bit drops off and the torniquet effect will not allow tetanus toxins into the blood supply and when the scrotum falls off the small wound is fairly open with good oxygen and not conducive for tetanus to survive. Passive immunity from colostrum may also help with banding at birth.

I have said this several times on CT, tetanus spores can enter a body through a vascular wound which does not favour the spores to multiply and they just sit in the likes of muscle tissue for several months and then say a horse gets transported loose in a truck with other horses and bruising of that muscle occurs creating a lower oxygen environment for the spores then they multiply and you get full blown tetanus. I have seen this a couple of occaisions.

FWIW, my FIL had several horses with tetanus over a short period of time (he was a horse trader) and he always blamed the ducks he had swimming and walking around his dam. When he got rid of the ducks the tetanus cases disappeared.

Ken

Thanks Ken. I know cow manure is also a source. I remember a case study in which a woman was using her hand to furrow her garden to plant a vegetable. The garden was fertilized with cow manure. She punctured her hand with an object in the manure. She contracted tetanus and died.

The question I have: is the gut of horses a more conductive reservoir for the bacterium than the gut of a cow?

Edited to add: horses are more susceptible to tetanus. The question is: does that make them more of a risk of increasing the cases of tetanus in your cattle?

Tetanus, or lockjaw, is an often fatal disease caused by the anaerobic bacteria (grows in low oxygen conditions), Clostridium tetani. The spores of Cl. tetani are commonly present in the soil and can contaminate puncture wounds, crushing wounds, open lacerations, surgical incisions and the umbilici of foals. Upon gaining entrance to the body, they produce a powerful neurotoxin that blocks neurotransmission, resulting in unopposed muscle contraction and spasm (tetany). Horses often adopt a "saw horse" posture. The incubation period is approximately 8 days (range 3 to 21 days) (1). Spores can also remain dormant in muscles and begin to grow when trauma occurs, making tissue oxygen level low. Horses of all ages can be affected. Horses are the most susceptible of all of the animal species. Tetanus can also affect humans. The disease is not contagious between horses or between horses and humans. The number of horses affected with tetanus annually in Ontario is unknown but would appear to be low (less than 5).

 

[elkwc]

The question I have is I can get a single tetanus shot for myself and I've been told it is good for several years. Why is 2 necessary for a calf. I've had vets tell me that in their opinion one shot is enough as long as you don't slit the bag. The bands we use the calf needs to be at least 300 lbs. Some of our pastures don't have pens so if a calf is born after we turn out they won't be worked until we gather in the fall. Everyone has different situations and some don't allow for penning.[/quote



You can get a bag of green doughnut bands and a tool to put them on for less then $15, will handle any of your calves too small for your other banded. I don't think not having the proper equipment is a good reason to wait and put calves through the stress of being banded at 600 pounds.

I don't know your operation but from your comments I would guess you run your cattle in traps instead of leased pastures of several thousand acres where the owners don't allow pens to be set up. Again we each have to manage our operation how it works best for us. Recently we banded some 500 lb plus bulls. Waited five weeks and sold them. They weighed 636 and was the second top selling group that day in their weight class and there were 300-400 in that class. They never stressed and kept right on gaining weight. Never went off feed. So until I see it is costing me money I will castrate when I can.

I won't use the green doughnuts. Have seen too many issues. I'll knife cut before then. I worked for a vet for several years when I was young and helped straighten out too many issues associated with them. The last sale I set at they cut off one that had been banded with them because he was what I call a stag. The owner said he was going to quit using them.

Your vet is misinformed if he thinks a dose of toxoid at banding time helps. It has long been industry standard to just do the one dose at banding, and I would give it if I had one that I had to band without the opportunity to do an earlier dose, but it will provide no benefit.

Are you a vet? Or someone that thinks they know more than a vet? There have been 3 cattle vets tell me that and they are all well respected and have large practices and so far what they have said has worked and I'm not going too change unless something happens. T

 

[wbvs58]

Ron, I suspect the reasoning of horses as carriers is the fact that they are more susceptible to the toxin. Also the way they are kept in yards and stables, a lot of manure around. People who have horses it is recommended they be up to date on tetanus shots as I guess they are in an environment high in horse faeces. Sheep are also reputed to carry a lot of tetanus but again shearing sheds and yards have a lot of sheep $hit around them and this is where a lot of castration, taildocking and previously muelsing takes place.

My view on giving the first TT at time of castration is that it is better than nothing and in particular with banding the tetanus risk may not be for a week or two after application of the band and active immunity may be starting to kick in by then.

Ken