Suggestions on what kind of bull I should use?

[Bigfoot]

I'd take a trash can full of those calves. They brought almost $700 straight through at 6 months old. The bottom must have fell out of dead calves. You can't give em away.

 

[Isomade]

I think a Lowline angus or a cheap dexter bull is your best bet. If not, a black hereford would be your next bull.

Now turn my serious face on...what I can't believe that someone would suggest a corriente as a heifer bull! That's good way to waste a year out of the cow's productivity life by raising a junk calf that is sired by a junk bull.

Hiw many calves did you sell or a friend sell out of a Cor bull? What was the average dock on em?

 

[Toad]

Yea I really don't want dead calves or heifers. Would take almost anything over having a lot of trouble my first time calving. I'm doing this as a way to keep the farm in the family, if I don't make much the first time around its not a big deal.

 

[Taurus]

I think a Lowline angus or a cheap dexter bull is your best bet. If not, a black hereford would be your next bull.

Now turn my serious face on...what I can't believe that someone would suggest a corriente as a heifer bull! That's good way to waste a year out of the cow's productivity life by raising a junk calf that is sired by a junk bull.

Hiw many calves did you sell or a friend sell out of a Cor bull? What was the average dock on em?

Seen the corriente crosses got docked heavily at the local salebarn and there was 200 head of them. My friend bred her roping cows to Angus bulls and sold his calves to the local sale barn but he still got docked despite of the crossbred calves being solid black.

Sorry, no offense to you and Bigfoot but there are good bulls that can do a job on the heifers very well instead of corriente bulls.

 

[Bigfoot]

Yea I really don't want dead calves or heifers. Would take almost anything over having a lot of trouble my first time calving. I'm doing this as a way to keep the farm in the family, if I don't make much the first time around its not a big deal.

You'll have to excuse us Toad, we get carried away. A low birth weight bull is what you need. I use a corriente on heifers. It's obviously not for everyone. If you haven't calved out a few heifers before, it's probably not a bad way to go.

You'll be pretty well guaranteed a smaller calf with a corriente, although every breed has low birth weight bulls. The problem is finding one. I don't personally trust the epd information on a young bull. Many people put a lot of faith in that information. Now, if I could find a bull that some one had gotten a couple of calf crops out of, and I had first hand information that a bull was an easy calver. I might try it. The only problem is you have a little Simmental in your heifers. Which isn't a bad thing. I actually like a black sim cow. My experience on a sim or char cross heifer is that many times they go ahead, and have a big calf bred to a lbw angus bull.

Welcome to the boards either way. We are all trying to help, we just get a little sidetracked some times. I will be the first to tell you that the half corriente calves will be smaller at weaning. In my management style, I am more interested in getting as many heifers to their second calf as I can. I have few if any problems many years calving my heifers.

 

[3waycross]

The bull is half corriente. His neck shows it, and his butt is peaked. Thats about it. I wouldn't crowd the bull in a corner. Hes a little gamey. Weighs about 1300 in this pic.

First of all yes he most likely is a good heifer bull keeping in mind that the heifer is still 1/2 of the deal.

Secondly not everyone has your skill set when it comes to handling cattle Bigfoot. I know ranches where they wouldn't even notice his disposition and if they did they would stretch him out and adjust his attitude. The problem for most folks on here who work cattle on foot and call them rather than move them with horses is that this kind of bull is not a good solution and something with big nasty horns is a worse choice.

FWIW i find him to be a better solution than a straight corriente and he probably sires "decent" calves. Not necessarily CAB but better than if they were 1/2 mexican rat

 

[Dave]

There are plenty of good bulls out there with low birth wieght and calving ease direct numbers. A decent calving ease bull and pay attention to the heifers at calving time and your problems should be minimal.
I am breeding a bunch of heifers in about 6 weeks. They will be sync'ed and bred AI to Top Hand. Then I have a couple of Image Maker sons for clean up. I don't think calving will be an issue. At least I hope not.

 

[Commercialfarmer]

Side note--------Pictures posted for explanatory purposes. I didn't ask for you show folks to "critique".

Had you not said this, I was going to have to point out that cow in the top right of the picture. I wouldn't have a cow with that kind of offset ears on the place, but I won't point that out since you asked.

We use low birth wt angus and get along ok in our herd, but still have an issue once in a while when something slips up on one side or the other. So I can see both sides of the story

There is a guy that runs quite a few head around us that uses a jersy bull. The thing I question is that they keep the heifers. They are pretty rough looking for a beef animal and it seems to stay with them through several generations. Something pays the bills, but I think it might be the black gold.

However, if I ever get into the seed stock business, it should be a great marketing campaign. Kinda like an average girl going out with a bunch of ugly friends.

 

[Jovid]

I would use a Red Poll bull.....you wouldn't have to worry about calving and you can count your money on the way to the bank from those cross bred calves.

 

[Isomade]

I would use a Red Poll bull.....you wouldn't have to worry about calving and you can count your money on the way to the bank from those cross bred calves.

I have no knowledge of Red Pole but have seen the nice bulls you have posted in the past. If you don't mind, could you give me some detail about the calving ease? Are they known for it?

 

[bigbull338]

i can solve this prob lolol.get heifers up to 750 or 800lb an turn in a polled hereford bull.

 

[bcarty]

Ok this is a really honest question turned into a bad debate. If you have never calved out any heifers on your own, then breed them at 14 months old, and as few as you have I would seriously look into AI. You get really high accuracy bulls that are guaranteed calving ease, and you get a calf that is really marketable. Not to mention you can generate some of your own high quality replacements. As far as a cleanup bull, just use a an angus bull with a CED above 10 and possibly a negative birthweight epd. Since these heifers are 1/4 simm they will be bigger framed, but they will also add some pounds at birth to their calves so you really want to look at taking some birth weight off. They should be old enough and framy enough to calve on the own. With the guaranteed calving ease of the AI bulls you will at least not have to worry about part of the heifers. The rest of them should calve on their own but you will want to watch them.

 

[Toad]

Thanks for all the good info. Is there any benefits or problems associated with waiting until they are a little older/bigger? Lets say breading at maybe 18 months? This is going to be my learning year before going in bigger next year, in the meantime I'm going to run steers on the rest of my pasture. Don't want to get in over my head all at once. Thanks again.

 

[TennesseeTuxedo]

bcarty just nailed if for you.I wouldn't wait until they are 18 months old to breed them. We just successfully calved 14 out of 15 registered Angus heifers we bought already bred to low birth weight sires via AI and the calf we lost was due to a miscarriage at around 7 months for reasons we don't full understand. The heifer is fine and hopefully now bred back by our own Bismarck bull to calf in late fall.

Good luck!

 

[3waycross]

i can solve this prob lolol.get heifers up to 750 or 800lb an turn in a polled hereford bull.[/quote

I hope you noticed that no on else recommended this option.......

 

[Toad]

I do want black calves if I can, everything else around here is docked pretty hard at the sale.

 

[Lucky_P]

toad,
Breeding at 14-15 months gets these girls on track to hopefully get on with the task of paying their way.
For most British/Continental breeds, sutures between pelvic bones fuse at about 27 months - so if you can get 'em bred and calve 'em out once before that happens, there's a little more 'wiggle room' for 'em to push a calf out through. 18 months is about as late as I'd care to wait.
I know plenty of the old-timers 'bred at 2 to calve at 3', but just because that's the way grandpa did it, doesn't mean it's the right way.

I know some folks advocate breeding to Corriente, Longhorn, Jersey the first time out, to help ensure that the heifer calves easily, loves that calf and learns how to be a good mama - and they count that calf as a 'coupon' - and I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with that; but if it's gonna be almost a throwaway calf, I'm gonna use a high CED/low BW black Angus bull, and hopefully end up with something that might grow off a little better - or even be worth keeping as a replacement heifer. I'm just saying...

Now, I REALLY like Jovid's Red Polls - and don't know much, if anything about calving ease in that breed (my dad used to raise 'em long before I was born) but you might get some red calves, if your cattle have red in their ancestry. I prefer red cattle, but my market prefers black, so thats the main direction I've taken my herd.

 

[cow pollinater]

I may be wrong as the current across breed epd's don't have them listed but I think I remember red polls as being about two pounds heavier than angus on birthweight which would put a calving ease red poll right in there with a moderate angus.

Angus with either a proven epd for calving ease or a pedigree stacked with calving ease on both sides is far and away the easiest choice because they're readily available in quantity and you have a huge market for the calves.
As far as age, breed them to fit your desired calving season. If you have to wait until they're eighteen months, fine. But you can also breed at fourteen months if it's time to breed in your area.

 

[Toad]

Thanks to all, you have been a huge help.

 

[Jovid]

I would use a Red Poll bull.....you wouldn't have to worry about calving and you can count your money on the way to the bank from those cross bred calves.

I have no knowledge of Red Pole but have seen the nice bulls you have posted in the past. If you don't mind, could you give me some detail about the calving ease? Are they known for it?

Calving ease is one of their major traits.

We breed all our heifers back to Red Poll bulls with no issues.

They just lay down and spit out a calf.