puzzled in oregon
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None of the deer or elk I have eaten appeared to have any marbling. But they are delicious.
Stirring the pot on the LH/corriente topic
- Thread starter BFE
- Start date
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BFE
Well-known member
Actually work and holidays got in the way. It wasn't a make or break, maybe next time I'll be on the ball.
farmerjan
Well-known member
At least you will have already run it by the "experts" on here.....
Drose
Active member
One of the very few things I have done right in my 18 years owning cattle was bought a group of longhorns. Calved them out, then sold them and the weaned calves that fall. They'll make money. I think I actually gave $400 a piece for the heavy breds and $600 for several cow calf pairs.
Just because an animal is worth a certain amount to me doesn't make it more or less valuable overall.
4 solid black Corriente bred to a LBW Registered Angus. Vet confirmed all 5 months bred. Amory, Mississippi. $650 each.
In 10 months these will wean a calf that will sell for twice the cow's price. If anyone is close to there, this would be a cheap way to try it out and see if it works for them. Even your Scooters and Skippys ought to be able to make money with these.
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Travlr
Well-known member
It's not a question of if they will make money. It's a question of scruples.
MurraysMutts
Well-known member
There's been a lot of them around these parts last year or two.
The ones I've seen, they are running a black bull of some sort.
There's gotta be money in it as many as I've seen around lately.
I'm still not interested
Like earz more than horns
The ones I've seen, they are running a black bull of some sort.
There's gotta be money in it as many as I've seen around lately.
I'm still not interested
Like earz more than horns
farmerjan
Well-known member
What scruples????? If they are sold at auction, the buyers can buy or not... If they are being sold and claiming something they are not then that is different.... I just don't see where anyone is claiming them to be something they are not any more than claiming every black animal is eligible for certified angus beef... IF it grades then it is... but it is not CERTIFIED angus unless DNA tested and that is not a requirement for the program....
I would be more concerned about animals that go to the sale claiming to be weaned and vacc and all that, and getting sick because someone did not do like they claimed.....
You have eyes, the buyers have eyes... it is up to them to make those judgement calls in the ring.
Look at the guy @Dave helps... with the wagyu.... look like crap to some people... but they are what he says when he sells them because he markets them that way.... if these corr crosses are marketed as something they are not then there is reason to "hold it against the seller and their reputation".... If they are just marketed then it is BUYER BEWARE......
If my BLACK, 1/2 longhorn, 1/2 angus steer gets graded by the state grader, after I have dropped them off at the yard and left... it is not my problem..... and the buyer has the right... and I have seen them do it.... to buy a group but says I want to pull those 2 steers out.... because they do not match... and then they get sold separate... It is part of it... IF you are selling private, or you are selling animals with certain guarantees and your reputation is at stake than that is different.
"Scruples" is MISREPRESENTING something you are selling as something it is not...
Making money off something like the corr or LH crosses is not a lack of scruples... it is good business decision making...... as long as you are not claiming they are something they are not.
Logan52
Well-known member
That is the ethic of the used car salesman or old time horse trader, and not what is best for the industry as a whole.
We all struggle to balance what is good for us with what is good for all, but to not state the truth is very nigh to a lie.
Look, I am guilty as well, but I see it as fault, not a virtue.
We all struggle to balance what is good for us with what is good for all, but to not state the truth is very nigh to a lie.
Look, I am guilty as well, but I see it as fault, not a virtue.
Travlr
Well-known member
Well your scruples are not mine and if you can knowingly produce an inferior product, knowing it will be purchased by people thinking it is better than it is, and be okay with it... then you and I will be drawing different lines.
My customers knew what I was selling and they paid more because they knew what they could expect. That's the way I made money. I'm proud of that, just like I'm proud of being faithful to my wife or proud of raising kids that never ran into legal problems and are making their own way in the world.
Have I been tempted to cross the line? You bet. We had a couple of lean years in Arkansas until I started dealing cattle. And being honest with my customers built my business and in the long run I wouldn't have done it any other way. And as long as I was capable of making money supplying the best I could produce I never had to stoop to cheating people. And I've never been so greedy that I'd lie to make more money. And a lie of omission is still a lie.
There's too much money to be made doing what's right to bother with the few extra pennies to be made fleecing the ignorant.
Yep. And the price you pay for Corriente cows and heifers has doubled since 2020. A lot sooner than the rest of the cows did. I have been tryinmg to get up another 100-120 in the past year, since we sold the herd in 2022. I have bought 170 something. in different batches, trying to get those 100, but end up selling them by the time they get here. For years we gave $200-$250 for them, but last year they would be $350, $400, or $450. The Mexicans charge more for solid these days that the others, and even more for solid blacks. I have sold them for $650, $700-$750 for solids, and as much as $900 for blacks. When we sold the last crop out of the $250 herd, they were brining just $1.50a pound, but that was $750....3 times what their mommas cost. But today, you won't get a $2700 calf out of a $900 cow. Not even twice what the cow costs. This year, they are brining $2.50 to $3 a pound, but that is just $1200-$1500 tops. About 50% more than what their mommas cost.
Since my long-term associate in Chihuahua was murdered this spring, I have only bought the occasional one at a cow sale, but they are all solid now, too. Recently, I made another contact down there...the foreman on my friend's ranch, who has helped the family run it since Jorge was killed. I met him a time or two, but really never talked with him more than to say hey. I don't really know him or anything about him. He called the oother day, and said he can put together 100 at $400 each, or would trade for 16 Chianinia bulls. Like Jorge and I used to do. I told him it might cost him a day or two in holding, but I would get a flight to El Paso, and meet him at the crossing, and if they were what he said they were, I would get the bulls started heading that way. He said he didn't want to do that if he wasn't sure I was gonna take them. Wants me to fly down, him pick me up in El Paso, then take me to the ranch in Chihuahua to see them. Then he would cross them, take care of the paperwork, etc. if I wanted them.
That reminds me: I need to start another thread, to see who all on here lives close to the border in Texas, and knows about the situation in Chiahuhua. I can't carry the things I would need to be safe on a plane, like I have when I drove. IF I were to make the trade, I would have $24k in those bulls, thus $24k in the cows....$240 a head.
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farmerjan
Well-known member
I have NEVER misrepresented an animal I sold direct to a customer as being something it was not. We have repeat buyers for our conditioned weaned and vacc steers because guys have come up and said that they liked the way our animals did for them. We have guys come up to us at the stock yards when we take a load in and ask which are our animals... and have them bid higher than I even thought they were going to do.... because our animals do what we say they will do... And if asked, I have sold some that yes, they are 1/4 holstein or jersey or whatever they are... we have markets for those kind of animals...
Why is a corr cross necessary an "inferior product" as you so righteously claim???? Just because it does not fit the business model you are producing for, does not make it inferior....
I resent the way you infer I am "fleecing the ignorant" ...... and besmirching my integrity.... I have never said I passed off an animal knowingly as something it was not...
I am done with this discussion with you.
Why is a corr cross necessary an "inferior product" as you so righteously claim???? Just because it does not fit the business model you are producing for, does not make it inferior....
I resent the way you infer I am "fleecing the ignorant" ...... and besmirching my integrity.... I have never said I passed off an animal knowingly as something it was not...
I am done with this discussion with you.
Travlr
Well-known member
If you don't know the difference between a black Corriente cross and a black European/Indicus cross, then why are you defending the practice?
And I never said YOU were doing anything... except drawing lines in different places than I would. I described my own experience, never saying anything about anything you've done.
So just to educate you about why I don't like the idea of selling Corriente crosses by a good, black European bull... the Corriente cows weigh 5/700 pounds and that is their genetics. They are runts and they produce runts. And putting a good bull on them, especially a homozygous black bull, masks that the calves will never mature at the weights and grades that buyers expect when they make a purchase. A black seven month old Corr cross will easily be mistaken for a five month old CAB candidate and will bring that kind of money. But months down the road those calves will prove to be runts and whomever purchased them will be stuck with a financial hit. Yet another reason CAB is a detriment to the industry, but that's another story.
There are far too many smart marketing strategies in the world that take advantage of people, producing inferior product but commanding prices as though the product was legitimate. And for what? There are still people selling superior products at fair prices and making a living. I know which crowd I'll choose to be part of.
Exactly. I don't know where Skippy or Scooter either one, gets that people who raise these, go around lying to these "professional buyers". Methinks that maybe they might be the ones who are fibbing, saying that at every sale they go to, every trailer that comes in, the people hauling the stock run around the whole place, stopping everyone they see and telling them what breed, or what crosses of breeds, those cattle are. My God, it would turn a sale day into a sale week! I guess, according to them and their high and mighty moral compasses, if a beef bull jumps the fence and gets into your Corriente herd, you are supposed to knock the calves in the head and not sell them! But actually, as more and more on here are starting to realize, or at least question, is whether either them have actually ever owned cattle, or been to a sale.
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I thought yall were hiding under yalls rock, again? You never replied to my last post.
Explain to every one how you defied all science and were running 5 Corrientes to 1 beef cow again so they can all see how full of it you are.
Well. Skippy, dunno where you are getting your false info from, or are you just making it up after a session with the pipe or the bottle? I have never seen one calve at 500 lbs, but I have at 700 or close to it. Clay's boss raises about 400 a year, and buys 500-600 more from people he has supplied a bull to and contracted to buy those calves. They are weaned at 6 mos old, and spend 120 days at his feeding facility. He hauls off the spent mash from the Budweiser plant here, gets all the seed as well as the "trash" from the gin across the highway from his place, puts up about 400 acres of sorghum and sudax silage. He has 8 chicken houses himself, and does the cleanup for other people, probably close to 100 houses. He mixes all this together, and grinds it up with whatever trash hay is around.....soy bean, wheat straw, etc., and feeds this to them free choice. When he sends them to the feed lot in Oklahoma, they are 10 months old, and heifers are 800-900 lbs, steers 900-1000. They feed them out there for 120 days, I think. Then he sells them direct to the processor at 1200-1300lbs.
greybeard
Well-known member
Used car salesmen are concerned with only 1 thing. Making money. They, like some cattlemen have no ethics and have no scruples in the context of personal pride, again, outside of making $$.
A line from a very old movie comes to mind.
Well, it's no trick to make a lot of money if all you want is to make a lot of money.
Drose
Active member
I just really don't understand how selling corriente crossed calves would be unscrupulous. If you buy a head cow at the same sale you take the same exact chance. You're buying without knowing any history or if they have had health issues. If I get burnt on a cow trade then that's on me. It's my obligation to train my eye and increase my knowledge not for somebody to fully disclose the information. That's just capitalism and a free market. Education isn't free and you better learn fast or you won't be in the cattle business very long. I would still bet them feed lots are making money on those corr crossed calves. Maybe not as much as they'd like... Seems like the people raising and selling the cattle are the ones getting paid the least anyway.
