Stirring the pot on the LH/corriente topic

[Travlr]

Their calves will finish in the same amount of time (on less (expense & volume) rations and still grade choice.

Will they? I'd like to see it. We have a guy north of us that sells Corriente beef. He's never shown my a cut that was marbled or that was the size marketed in grocery stores. But it tastes just fine.

And I'm not a fan of huge beef and 1300 pound hanging weights for my own table. But that's MY personal preference. I don't sell that to my customers. I sell them what THEY want.

 

[mwj]

You can not tell the buyers what to buy. If you produce cattle you have to have buyers That could be sale yards, individual locals, facebook, or process them and sell the meat.. You just need to honestly find what works best.

Niche markets can be a goldmine but it doesn't take many producers to flood the market.

 

[Warren Allison]

Having been in the business for 50 years, the real question is who are they valued by, and why do they value them? Black Angus are only "valued" because of a long term marketing ploy by the Angus Association. If anyone wants to talk about being dishonest, look at that program. As long as the animal is black hided and grades within the parameters, the consumer pays out the nose for "certified Angus."

"Feed efficient" genetics is another lie, which only benefits the feeders. While many of these genetics may be able to perform in the feedlot, their mothers and bulls which sire them can't make it on the kind of marginal country that many producers are running on without feeding a bunch of high dollar supplements.

If you want to see "feed efficiency" look at what cattle will bring you the highest percentage of weaned weight, with the least amount of outputs, under the harshest conditions. Those cattle may not be able to handle the hottest rations in the feedlot, but their ADG will be comparable to the "feed efficient" cattle which can handle the hotter feed. So what about a smaller carcass size? The only ones profiting from a larger carcass size is the packer and feeder charging you for feed. In the end, those Corriente cross cows eat less (without requiring you to buy stock in Purina or Cargill) while weaning at least 50% of their body weight. Their calves will finish in the same amount of time (on less (expense & volume) rations and still grade choice.

Thank you! You are one of the few that get it. Ours weigh for the most part, between 700 and 800. They wean 500+ lb calves at 6 months. Between 63% and 72% of the dam's weight. And we have ZERO...nada...inputs. No worming, no vaccinating, no vet bills, no feed or hay, no fertilizer etc on the pasture. No pulling calves, either. The calves sell for 2 to 3 times what their momma cost. The ONLY money we will spend in a year, is ear tags, single edge razor blades, and about $100 worth of loose minerals. I can buy 5 Corr cows for what a good beef cow would cost. And you can run them on the same acreage you can that cow. And I won't have any hay or feed cost. So, say that beef cow's calf brings $3 a lib at 500 lbs, and ours only bring $2 You sold $1500 worth of calves, to my $5k worth. If I could only by 4 for what you pay for 1, and say ours only brought $1.50 per lb that day. You sold $1500 worth of calves and I sold $3k. In reality, though, around here, they gonna sell the same price as any other black polled calf will.

 

[Little Joe]

Will they? I'd like to see it. We have a guy north of us that sells Corriente beef. He's never shown my a cut that was marbled or that was the size marketed in grocery stores. But it tastes just fine.

I've never finished a full blood but I can tell you the half bloods finish and marble as well as any others I've finished and in the same time frame and with less grain. Refer to my other post in this thread where I stated how dissapointed I was in some top dollar AI sired steers a few years ago. I,m not saying that's everyone's experience but it's been mine. From what I figure the packers probably don"t want them due to smaller carcasses overall.

 

[Travlr]

I've never finished a full blood but I can tell you the half bloods finish and marble as well as any others I've finished and in the same time frame and with less grain. Refer to my other post in this thread where I stated how dissapointed I was in some top dollar AI sired steers a few years ago. I,m not saying that's everyone's experience but it's been mine. From what I figure the packers probably don"t want them due to smaller carcasses overall.

Well that's my experience too. And I said Corriente... but meant crosses. And the cuts I've seen weren't marbled. Some fat, but not what I would call marbled. They wouldn't grade choice. But then I never asked about what he did to finish them.

 

[alacowman1]

Well that's my experience too. And I said Corriente... but meant crosses. And the cuts I've seen weren't marbled. Some fat, but not what I would call marbled. They wouldn't grade choice. But then I never asked about what he did to finish them.

Bet not much..not gonna throw tons of feed at one like that. If money wasn't an object initially ...you see a fattened longhorn or corriente you can believe a sizable feed bill is hanging around somewhere

 

[Brute 23]

Bet not much..not gonna throw tons of feed at one like that. If money wasn't an object initially ...

That's the ultimate deal. Any thing will marble with enough corn but the efficiency sucks and buyers know numbers or they wouldn't be in business. You can't really compare freezer beef or back yard feeding to mass market buyers.

 

[MtnCows93]

Thank you! You are one of the few that get it. Ours weigh for the most part, between 700 and 800. They wean 500+ lb calves at 6 months. Between 63% and 72% of the dam's weight. And we have ZERO...nada...inputs. No worming, no vaccinating, no vet bills, no feed or hay, no fertilizer etc on the pasture. No pulling calves, either. The calves sell for 2 to 3 times what their momma cost. The ONLY money we will spend in a year, is ear tags, single edge razor blades, and about $100 worth of loose minerals. I can buy 5 Corr cows for what a good beef cow would cost. And you can run them on the same acreage you can that cow. And I won't have any hay or feed cost. So, say that beef cow's calf brings $3 a lib at 500 lbs, and ours only bring $2 You sold $1500 worth of calves, to my $5k worth. If I could only by 4 for what you pay for 1, and say ours only brought $1.50 per lb that day. You sold $1500 worth of calves and I sold $3k. In reality, though, around here, they gonna sell the same price as any other black polled calf will.

if your talking about normal grass pasture my experience has been you can run 2 corriente cows to 1 beef cow. but definately not 5, i also never get 500lb weaning weights at 6 months but at 8 or 9 months youd get that easily

 

[Brute 23]

if your talking about normal grass pasture my experience has been you can run 2 corriente cows to 1 beef cow. but definately not 5, i also never get 500lb weaning weights at 6 months but at 8 or 9 months youd get that easily

You and every one else in the world.

There is only certain about of variance between cattle of different breeds, easy keepers, etc.

A #750 Corriente still eats X% of its body weight just like a #1300 cow. In no world other than la la land does #3750 of cow (5×750) eat the same amount as #1300 of cow.

#1500 of Corriente vs #1300 of beef cow is far more logical. In fact, I just found an article where some one said Corriente cows eats 75% of what a beef cow eats.

 

[puzzled in oregon]

Now that the conversation has settled down abit I thought everyone would enjoy some pictures
This was the first cross I did with a gray and white Corriente bull. The solid black bull calf goes with the black baldy cow, Spook.
Probably why they are not in same photo.

So I kept the two spotted heifer calves. The pictures below is of them with their second calves, out of and an angus bull.

The first cow pictured only ever had one solid colored calf, and that calf was out of the Murray Grey.
The black and white cow had this black brockle faced calf, and all her other calves were either red and white or black and white spotted..
I kept both these heifers
The gray and white spotted calf had a sold black calf her first year, and black and white spotted calves every year after that.
The black brockle faced heifer has never had a spotted calf.

That is how the "spotted plague" began. Had I tuned into CattleToday 15 years sooner would it have made a difference?
Probably not, the Corriente bull fit my budget that year for a little group of 3 cows.

I grew up with cows, have always tried to have a few, can't help myself. They have been fun.

 

[Dave]

Basically thats only because they buy into the packer deal of wanting bigger frame cattle. The guys buying them at discount are making more per head across the rail because they finish cheaper and are going to grade the same. They also discount rat tailed cattle. I knew a trader who bought every rat tail he could get his hands on. Said he made more money off of those cattle across the rail than any other breed.

First that head buyer for the big outfit. Well they own a packing plant that kills 1,400 a day. So I believe they are just influenced by profit. These are not small feedlots. They have tens of millions of dollars invested in just the animals they have on feed. You can be pretty certain they know what makes them money and what doesn't. If you think you can do better than them I would advise you to buy a couple hundred head of Corriente cross calves and put them on feed. You seem to think there is big money to be made.

I know a man who had 500-600 LH cows which they bred to Charolais bulls. They had to go away from the LH cows because they took too big a hit on the calves. The feeders didn't want because they didn't preform. I know another guy who has a lot of Corriente cattle that he uses to put on ropings and rent out to roping clubs. He kept a bunch of the over grown heifers and bred them to Charolais. I witnessed him trying to sell the calves to man #1. The reply was we can't use them and I don't know anyone who wants them.

 

[Warren Allison]

if your talking about normal grass pasture my experience has been you can run 2 corriente cows to 1 beef cow. but definately not 5, i also never get 500lb weaning weights at 6 months but at 8 or 9 months youd get that easily

We hardly ever got them much bigger than 400 lbs when we used straight Angus. But since we started using Brangus and Ultrablacks, the steers will go 500 or more, and the heifers will go 450+- easy. Plus they spend from mid February to Mid November on 100 or so acres of Kudzu. 24-26% protein. And these bulls aren't the average Brangus bulls either. What town are you close to in NC?

 

[Little Joe]

if your talking about normal grass pasture my experience has been you can run 2 corriente cows to 1 beef cow. but definately not 5, i also never get 500lb weaning weights at 6 months but at 8 or 9 months youd get that easily

This is in line with my experience as well. I also never got the spots off of all of them, I have an aquaintence that gets mostly black calves out of his with a black bull but that wasn't my experience. With me finishing them out the spots never mattered so I never dug into it to see if another bull would do better at knocking off the spots. If I were to run criollo type cattle to sell the calves at the sale barn I would probably go with a charolais bull myself.

 

[Little Joe]

We hardly ever got them much bigger than 400 lbs when we used straight Angus. But since we started using Brangus and Ultrablacks, the steers will go 500 or more, and the heifers will go 450+- easy. Plus they spend from mid February to Mid November on 100 or so acres of Kudzu. 24-26% protein. And these bulls aren't the average Brangus bulls either. What town are you close to in NC?

I'm sure the protein in that kudzu is a big contributing factor in those weaning weights as well as genetics of the bull.

 

[Logan52]

I used a roan Shorthorn bull in 1989; kept several solid colored replacements and I still get an occasional roanish looking calf, even today.
Would not the wild Corriente colors pop up occasionally?

I actually like the black steers with a few white hairs on their underline and poll, they tend to be rugged and framy. The heifers make nice cows that milk well and are fertile. This could be just a built in bias I have due to memories of past success.
I know that old bull cost me money though, on the red calves with too much white that he sired.

 

[Little Joe]

These 2 steers I gave good money for and I haven't been very Impressed with their performance, one will probably hang around 700 the other 625 or so, the heifer probably 650-675 (I'll know exact numbers this evening).

I wasn't far off on my guess on their hanging weights, bigger steer hung at 730, smaller steer at 648 and heifer at 690, I guessed them a little lighter but not bad. I like trying to guess such things and see how close I am, guess it makes me feel like I'm starting to get an eye for it.

 

[Brute 23]

So a Corriente cross calf has to be kept 25-30% longer on a cow to raise a comparable calf to a beef cow.

 

[puzzled in oregon]

So a Corriente cross calf has to be kept 25-30% longer on a cow to raise a comparable calf to a beef cow.

Depends on the beef cow. All breeds are not created equal. You can over a period of a few years have beef cows that
are a percentage Corriente that will produce very well. A less expensive way to slowly establish a respectable group
of cows. We all pick different routes.

Not all of us are dependent on our cows to make ranch payments or keep food on the table. For me I just enjoy the
few cows I have. They have always paid their way. I don't own the pasture they graze, so in the blink of an eye they
may all go away.

I don't like the brahma or brahma cross. Yes they produce well, but not what I would want in my pasture.
Just personal preference, but I am not going to criticize those that do well with them.

 

[Bob Kinford]

Well that's my experience too. And I said Corriente... but meant crosses. And the cuts I've seen weren't marbled. Some fat, but not what I would call marbled. They wouldn't grade choice. But then I never asked about what he did to finish them.

If you tried hard enough you could produce a Wagyu carcass with no marbling....

 

[BFE]

It doesn't matter anyway, they sold before I could get there. Such is life.