Small Scale Ranching

[Caustic Burno]

Was at a seminar a few years ago and listened to several speakers......... from Feedlot operators to Packing house reps, Producers, and all in between.

Their whole message was that small time ranching is ruining the cattle industry as we know it.

In no particular order (from memory)

1-They usually have no working facilities therefore have no health program and raise calves that have high mortality/death rates after they leave the farm. (Everyone, large and small ranches alike pay for the risks that buyers take)

2-Most rob the calves off the cows when they need a few dollars, take them to the sale barn, and are satisfied with the price paid whether it pays the bills or not. (NO marketing)

3-Buy high priced feed in the bag, thus pushing the price up for everyone. Same goes for seed and fertilizer.

4-Usually have crossbred mongrels with inconsistant carcass qualities because of the cheap bulls purchased and/or retained, plus the replacements raised that shouldn't be on the farm to start with.

These guys were merely trying to push the small producer into doing a better job.

I'm not sure how small time ranching ruins the over all cattle industry. I've seen hobby ranchers treat their cattle 10 times better than the some of the larger operations. I would think that the various vendors would eat up the buying dollars of the smaller ranchers. In any case, I've seen many "experienced" cattle people fit the desciption above.

This is one of the main reasons you see the crusty's giving the rookies a fit. It doesn't matter if you have 10 cows or a 100 learn to operate as a business.

I'm sure everyone of us have driven by large expanses of acreage to see cows that look like they ought to be put down and nothing but weeds growing. And I'm sure we have all met "crusties" who have had cattle for 30 years but they still haven't learned anything about land/grass/cattle management. Most of the newbies I have met make a lot of mistakes but they learn from them and continuously improve.
Those who want to point the finger at entry level ranchers for their own problems maybe should think about doing something else for a living and get out of the way of progress.

[/quote]

They are easy to spot work in Houston or the city drive a King Ranch diesel you can load the entire ranch in one 26 foot gooseneck. But most important of all is they have a belt buckle the size of a hubcap and they are more hat than cattle.
I have to this day never met a true cattleman that wasn't tighter than a crabs butt and thats waterproof.
You make your money on the frontend of this business by controlling cost. The backend prices are set.

 

[gendronf]

Was at a seminar a few years ago and listened to several speakers......... from Feedlot operators to Packing house reps, Producers, and all in between.

Their whole message was that small time ranching is ruining the cattle industry as we know it.

In no particular order (from memory)

1-They usually have no working facilities therefore have no health program and raise calves that have high mortality/death rates after they leave the farm. (Everyone, large and small ranches alike pay for the risks that buyers take)

2-Most rob the calves off the cows when they need a few dollars, take them to the sale barn, and are satisfied with the price paid whether it pays the bills or not. (NO marketing)

3-Buy high priced feed in the bag, thus pushing the price up for everyone. Same goes for seed and fertilizer.

4-Usually have crossbred mongrels with inconsistant carcass qualities because of the cheap bulls purchased and/or retained, plus the replacements raised that shouldn't be on the farm to start with.

These guys were merely trying to push the small producer into doing a better job.

I'm not sure how small time ranching ruins the over all cattle industry. I've seen hobby ranchers treat their cattle 10 times better than the some of the larger operations. I would think that the various vendors would eat up the buying dollars of the smaller ranchers. In any case, I've seen many "experienced" cattle people fit the desciption above.

This is one of the main reasons you see the crusty's giving the rookies a fit. It doesn't matter if you have 10 cows or a 100 learn to operate as a business.

I'm sure everyone of us have driven by large expanses of acreage to see cows that look like they ought to be put down and nothing but weeds growing. And I'm sure we have all met "crusties" who have had cattle for 30 years but they still haven't learned anything about land/grass/cattle management. Most of the newbies I have met make a lot of mistakes but they learn from them and continuously improve.
Those who want to point the finger at entry level ranchers for their own problems maybe should think about doing something else for a living and get out of the way of progress.

They are easy to spot work in Houston or the city drive a King Ranch diesel you can load the entire ranch in one 26 foot gooseneck. But most important of all is they have a belt buckle the size of a hubcap and they are more hat than cattle.
I have to this day never met a true cattleman that wasn't tighter than a crabs butt and thats waterproof.
You make your money on the frontend of this business by controlling cost. The backend prices are set.[/quote]

Caustic I agree with you. The way you write, you are the Wayne Gretsky of the writers.
Have a good day
Marcel

 

[Victoria]

Seems like most(but not all) of the guys around me fit this bill. I drive by these places and I see the same, bad pasture...mostly weeds, ribs showing on the cows, only about half the cows with calves, jack-leg fencing and working corrals. As much as I need the ag exemption, I believe it's part of the cause for these bad operators.

Around here that is the mid to large size ranches. The small ranches are owned by oil guys that have money for top of the line everything - BSE didn't affect them at all! :lol:

 

[Victoria]

Small around here is usually under 20 cows. Large over a hundred.

 

[novatech]

I run my cattle like a bussiness. In one more year I anticapate seeing a profit. I will be proof that you do not have to be big to make a profit. With less cattle on more acres= less welfare.
And in this I also include hay as welfare. I am a penny pincher. I have found that it is normal for people to watch the big expenses but it is the little things (pennies) that eat you up at the end of the year.

You make your money on the frontend of this business by controlling cost. The backend prices are set.

I would rather pay taxes on a profit than buy a right off I do not need.

 

[xbred]

i've always considered it an insult to ask, or be asked how many cows you have or how many acres you have..it really doesn't matter....it's like asking how much money you have.. i've never known a real cattleman that didn't work at his pasture as much as he did in his cattle..whether he had 20 or 2000..

 

[CowpokeJ]

Caustic I agree with you. The way you write, you are the Wayne Gretsky of the writers.
Have a good day
Marcel

Is your last name Ledbetter?

 

[TheBullLady]

I have to agree that over time we are going to see more and more "small" "hobby" "part time" ranchers than large scale operations that are trying to make a living and support a family. It's gotten too hard to buy the land and sustain cattle and an entire family on a budget, no matter how hard you pinch pennies. And for people who have inherited the land, 90% of them are happy to get rid of it given the first opportunity.

I have to disagree with the analogy about only "old timers" being good cattlemen. There are some new breeders in Texas that are very successful.. primarily because they are good BUSINESSMEN first and foremost. Cattle raising may not be their first profession, but they are very concerned with costs and bottom lines.

 

[Jogeephus]

Here is a fact sheet you might find helpful.

http://www.beefusa.org/uDocs/Who%20we%2 ... %2006%20(2).pdf

 

[Gate Opener]

I doesn't bother me if someone asks how much land or how many cows we have. Most people aren't sizing you up, they are just curious or the whole idea if having more than 1/4 of an acre seems fascinating to them. Now if someone were to ask for the wrong reason I wouldn't tell them.

Bear in mind that some operations run on leased land and cows with a note behind them. Hopefully those are few and far between. Just because someone has a lot of cows on a lot of land doesn't always mean they are rich.

 

[Beefy]

yeah it doesnt bother me either. people ask me that all the time. its like the first thing people ask when i mention i raise cows.

i would classify me/us as large scale with skinny cows, weeds, and poor fencing.

 

[Moocow11]

around here 50-100 cows is a small operation, 300 cows-medium, 600+ - big operation

 

[Ryder]

around here 50-100 cows is a small operation, 300 cows-medium, 600+ - big operation

Wouldn't that depend on where you are? :|
Sort of been wondering where you are. Don't see your location with your avatar.

 

[vs_cattle]

around here 50-100 cows is a small operation, 300 cows-medium, 600+ - big operation

so 1-50 is a hobbu farm size? I thought the median size herd # in the US is like 35-45 or something like that

 

[novatech]

I doesn't bother me if someone asks how much land or how many cows we have. Most people aren't sizing you up, they are just curious or the whole idea if having more than 1/4 of an acre seems fascinating to them. Now if someone were to ask for the wrong reason I wouldn't tell them.

Bear in mind that some operations run on leased land and cows with a note behind them. Hopefully those are few and far between. Just because someone has a lot of cows on a lot of land doesn't always mean they are rich.

I disagree with the implication that borrowed money and leased land is something bad.
If one has a bussiness other than cattle, and I do, borrowed money that will make you money is a tool used in almost every bussiness in the world. Leased land is far less expensive than a monthly payment. Other bussiness lease equipment, is land any different?
Leaseing land from the city folks, in my area, is about the only way one will be able to have cattle at all.
If one knows their bussiness, and knows how to operate a bussiness there is no reason why they should not borrow money to invest in cattle. That is if it pencils out.

 

[MikeC]

The way that I have heard small scale ranching described is by
"Bull Units".

In other words, when it takes only 1 bull to cover one's entire herd, he is a small rancher.

The speakers at the seminar I spoke of categorized anything above a "5 Bull Unit" ranch as being above average.

These guys held the position, and I agree, that each and every rancher should have a certain number of calves from their operation harvested and graded each year and be paid accordingly.

Reason being, most ranchers have no idea what quality food they are producing.

If we are in the "Food" business, we should know these things.

This idea would cause quality grades to improve very rapidly.

 

[Frankie]

Here is a fact sheet you might find helpful.

http://www.beefusa.org/uDocs/Who%20we%2 ... %2006%20(2).pdf

What a good link. Thank you.

 

[tryinhard]

This is just another thread for the {crustys} who live on the computer, to try to make the small farmers who are trying to get started, or expand, make the small farmer to feel bad, Most of the crustys, and {guru many time 6 months on this board, to be a guru!} All to try to make someone feel less of a man, person, to think less of himself. While the computer freak, looking for someone to try to make feel bad, would buy any and all of the small man's cattle, if he would sell them, then brag about what a deal on what they got, and or price they gave for the cattle. My son who has now gotten down to under 25 head because of the drought, has never owned 50 in his life, people have who own over 900 head come to buy his GRADE cattle and have, for over $1250.00 per pair, non registered. Throw rocks if you want, but his cows are not thin, are vaccinated, taken care of, He goes to college, and works another job, plus cattle. He don't brag about anything, nor does he put people down. I tried to get him to sign up on this board, he said some of the stuff is interesting, but there some people on here who {SUCK}. He said I don't need that. Me, being disabled, can't walk, it is something for me to occupy my time with, but there are some on here who are as nice as anyone you can meet, n others, Thier family probably hate it when they come to the house. And If you may be one that these shoes fit, {Changing shoes don't fix it}. Oh yea kick him when he is down, that's the way this one n that one does. There are good people, and there are the others. You may know things the newbe don't know, that don't make him dumb, maybe less experienced. Some only see it as being dumb though, those are the computer addicts, I would guess, or crustys, which look to be the same. Some want to give good advice, and hope the best, and {YOU} others who just want it to all go bad for that person. What a man?????????


tryinhard

 

[Gate Opener]

I doesn't bother me if someone asks how much land or how many cows we have. Most people aren't sizing you up, they are just curious or the whole idea if having more than 1/4 of an acre seems fascinating to them. Now if someone were to ask for the wrong reason I wouldn't tell them.

Bear in mind that some operations run on leased land and cows with a note behind them. Hopefully those are few and far between. Just because someone has a lot of cows on a lot of land doesn't always mean they are rich.

I disagree with the implication that borrowed money and leased land is something bad.
If one has a bussiness other than cattle, and I do, borrowed money that will make you money is a tool used in almost every bussiness in the world. Leased land is far less expensive than a monthly payment. Other bussiness lease equipment, is land any different?
Leaseing land from the city folks, in my area, is about the only way one will be able to have cattle at all.
If one knows their bussiness, and knows how to operate a bussiness there is no reason why they should not borrow money to invest in cattle. That is if it pencils out.

Seems to be a misunderstanding. I was speaking of appearances of wealth. Someone who owns the land and the cows will have more net worth in that land and cows than someone who leases and owes on the cattle.

IMO leased land is not a bad thing, I should have separated that out.

 

[dun]

This is just another thread for the {crustys} who live on the computer, to try to make the small farmers who are trying to get started, or expand, make the small farmer to feel bad, Most of the crustys, and {guru many time 6 months on this board, to be a guru!} All to try to make someone feel less of a man, person, to think less of himself. While the computer freak, looking for someone to try to make feel bad, would buy any and all of the small man's cattle, if he would sell them, then brag about what a deal on what they got, and or price they gave for the cattle. My son who has now gotten down to under 25 head because of the drought, has never owned 50 in his life, people have who own over 900 head come to buy his GRADE cattle and have, for over $1250.00 per pair, non registered. Throw rocks if you want, but his cows are not thin, are vaccinated, taken care of, He goes to college, and works another job, plus cattle. He don't brag about anything, nor does he put people down. I tried to get him to sign up on this board, he said some of the stuff is interesting, but there some people on here who {SUCK}. He said I don't need that. Me, being disabled, can't walk, it is something for me to occupy my time with, but there are some on here who are as nice as anyone you can meet, n others, Thier family probably hate it when they come to the house. And If you may be one that these shoes fit, {Changing shoes don't fix it}. Oh yea kick him when he is down, that's the way this one n that one does. There are good people, and there are the others. You may know things the newbe don't know, that don't make him dumb, maybe less experienced. Some only see it as being dumb though, those are the computer addicts, I would guess, or crustys, which look to be the same. Some want to give good advice, and hope the best, and {YOU} others who just want it to all go bad for that person. What a man?????????


tryinhard

What an interesting tirare!