New to cattle ranching. So excited!

[Bestoutwest]

I jumped into cows as a newbie as well, here's some advice:

1) Build the best facilities you can afford. Do it right the first time. BUT! you don't necessarily need the biggest and best equipment. I have a 135 degree sweep that leads into a manual squeeze chute. One of the cheapest options, but it's economical and does its job. With our small operation there's no need for a hydrolic chute, or a solid walled tub. Spend a lot of time planning them. Draw them, redraw them, then do it again. Try to think "how is this going to get broken, how will cows flow through it."

2) You don't need $5K heifers from fancy breeders, doesn't make money. I'd start with cows that know the ropes on having and raising babies, and know how to behave.

3) Registered is a whole different ball game, and you probably won't be allowed up to bat. It's the nepotism show.

4) Don't be afraid to change your plan. I went from longhorns, to angus, now to sale barn calves we'll keep through the spring/summer/fall, and use as freezer beef. Keeping cows over winter isn't going to work for us with $300/ton hay.

 

[Travlr]

Hi! Thanks for your note. There is actually a qualitative measure which separates "ponies" from "horses" in most circles. If the small horse is less than 14.2 hands high it is considered a pony. However, in slang terms many of us horse owners call our horses "ponies" as a term of endearment. Polo horses are called ponies and they are NOT short. It really depends on the area ones lives and the discipline in which they participate. I know some small cutting horses that technically would be ponies but we call them horses. I always find it funny when people call "mini" horses ponies. They are not. Also, people think young horses (foals, yearlings, etc.) are ponies. I often have to correct these people. I will definitely be depending on reputable, professionals in this business. I actually meet with some program directors tomorrow at Oregon State University, Animal & Rangeland Sciences program. Here's a picture of one of the pastures on the ranch I am purchasing. Enjoy!View attachment 18901

Getting to know the people at an Ag school is a valuable resource, and so is getting to know the local extension agents.
Ask them about stocking rates where you're buying acreage, and rotating pastures. Also get some literature on what grasses do best locally and get your extension agents involved in improving your pastures. If you're going to be trading cattle through a sale barn it's good to get to know those people too. Let them know what you're bringing in and what you're looking for... both with plenty of lead time.

Something the schools are probably not going to be as free with in the advice area is detrimental comments concerning specific breeds or local breeders. That's something you will have to look at yourself. I'll give you an example. Research the genetic anomaly "curly calf syndrome" and you will see how it has impacted black Angus and how those breeders/association are reacting. You will find people here that promote Angus and others that are tired of the black hide pricing monopoly so listen carefully and make up your own mind. Both sides have valid points to make.

Your veterinarian could be a good resource for local information.

Never met a guy that made horses and cattle work at the same time... unless they were big enough to hire someone to manage the one they would likely neglect.

Good luck...

One last thing... I probably don't need to say this, it sounds like you've been around the block. There are all kinds of opinions about all kinds of things, but it's all about what works for YOU. It's gonna be your own niche that works best. There are all kinds of strategies and the people that seem to do best are pretty flexible get an innate sense of what works... but also develop a sense for what will be working next year. Livestock is a lot like the stock market. A lot of it is based in faith and perception.

 

[Katpau]

Thank you for reaching out! I have LOTS of people helping me that have been in this business. So, though I am a newbie to cattle raising...they are not. I'm lucky!

Welcome to Oregon. I wish you the best. You most likely already realize this, since you are already running a successful equine business, but the people assisting you with the start of your new cattle business are also in it to make money. Many will have their own interests in mind and may very well take advantage of a newbie to cattle. Be cautious and keep the market in mind. That is one thing the cattle business has over the horse business. Prices are less subjective. You can always look up what cattle are currently worth in the market reports. Remember however that many markets reports are based on calves located convenient to feedlots and or packers. You will be looking at prices maybe 25 + cents a pound less in your location. That difference is due to transportation costs. I am located in the central valley near Roseburg and I-5, so your prices could be a little less. Bred cows and replacement quality heifers are more variable and will differ quite a bit according to quality. Be careful. Do the math and make sure you're not paying more than they will return.

You have a number of choices for your operation. Cow/calf is how we refer to operations that own the cows and raise the calves to weaning. Stocker growers buy those calves at 400 to 600 pounds and put them on grass until they reach 750 to 900 pounds and are ready to be finished. Feeder cattle are those cattle that are ready to be finished in a feedlot and are most often bought in truckloads from the stocker growers. Most people do just one step of that process, but if you have the pasture and the facilities you may chose to do more. When you see a price for "Live cattle", that is the price being paid to the feedlot by the packers for cattle that are finished and ready to be processed.

 

[wbvs58]

Getting to know the people at an Ag school is a valuable resource, and so is getting to know the local extension agents.
Ask them about stocking rates where you're buying acreage, and rotating pastures. Also get some literature on what grasses do best locally and get your extension agents involved in improving your pastures. If you're going to be trading cattle through a sale barn it's good to get to know those people too. Let them know what you're bringing in and what you're looking for... both with plenty of lead time.

Something the schools are probably not going to be as free with in the advice area is detrimental comments concerning specific breeds or local breeders. That's something you will have to look at yourself. I'll give you an example. Research the genetic anomaly "curly calf syndrome" and you will see how it has impacted black Angus and how those breeders/association are reacting. You will find people here that promote Angus and others that are tired of the black hide pricing monopoly so listen carefully and make up your own mind. Both sides have valid points to make.

Your veterinarian could be a good resource for local information.

Never met a guy that made horses and cattle work at the same time... unless they were big enough to hire someone to manage the one they would likely neglect.

Good luck...

One last thing... I probably don't need to say this, it sounds like you've been around the block. There are all kinds of opinions about all kinds of things, but it's all about what works for YOU. It's gonna be your own niche that works best. There are all kinds of strategies and the people that seem to do best are pretty flexible get an innate sense of what works... but also develop a sense for what will be working next year. Livestock is a lot like the stock market. A lot of it is based in faith and perception.

Pray tell me what detrimental effect has recessive genetic conditions had on commercial Angus cattle? You are better off with a big breed society that monitors and knows how to react to any recessive problems before they affect the commercial cattle industry. There certainly haven't been train wrecks.

Ken

 

[Travlr]

Pray tell me what detrimental effect has recessive genetic conditions had on commercial Angus cattle? You are better off with a big breed society that monitors and knows how to react to any recessive problems before they affect the commercial cattle industry. There certainly haven't been train wrecks.

Ken

"There certainly haven't been train wrecks."

Why do you think there is now, "a big breed society that monitors and knows how to react to any recessive problems before they affect the commercial cattle industry."?

This from a simple google search: The widespread use of the superior carcass-trait bull Precision 1680, an AM carrier (AMC), increased the probability of this bull showing up on both sides of many Angus pedigrees, and this uncovered the presence of the recessive lethal mutation that results in "curly calf" syndrome.

And the more we use artificial insemination with a pyramid tip of top bulls siring the majority of commercial bulls we are destroying genetic diversity.

Not that we couldn't argue it the other way too. I have no problem using black Angus bulls for a terminal program... but I prefer to stay away from BA for replacement stock.

 

[wbvs58]

"There certainly haven't been train wrecks."

Why do you think there is now, "a big breed society that monitors and knows how to react to any recessive problems before they affect the commercial cattle industry."?

This from a simple google search: The widespread use of the superior carcass-trait bull Precision 1680, an AM carrier (AMC), increased the probability of this bull showing up on both sides of many Angus pedigrees, and this uncovered the presence of the recessive lethal mutation that results in "curly calf" syndrome.

And the more we use artificial insemination with a pyramid tip of top bulls siring the majority of commercial bulls we are destroying genetic diversity.

Not that we couldn't argue it the other way too. I have no problem using black Angus bulls for a terminal program... but I prefer to stay away from BA for replacement stock.

You haven't given me any example of mass losses of calves as you implied in your post to the OP. AM is in the distant past. In the commercial world it was easily fixed by using bulls that were not carriers even if you had a herd of cows that were AM carriers which you wouldn't. By buying registered bulls their genetic condition status is there for all to see. Unregistered bulls may pose a risk.

Ken

 

[Travlr]

You haven't given me any example of mass losses of calves as you implied in your post to the OP. AM is in the distant past. In the commercial world it was easily fixed by using bulls that were not carriers even if you had a herd of cows that were AM carriers which you wouldn't. By buying registered bulls their genetic condition status is there for all to see. Unregistered bulls may pose a risk.

Ken

I can explain it to you but I can't understand it for you.

 

[Dave]

Here where the rule is full time commercial cattle ranchers (hobby farmers are as rare as hens teeth) the vast majority of the cows are black. If there was some sort of train wreck associated with Black Angus cows. I do see an increase in both numbers and cost of horned Hereford bulls. Baldie steers sell real well and baldie heifers make great cows. Years of breeding straight BA lost the hybred vigor that they brought when they were added to the straight bred Herefords.
I have a neighbor who has about 40 bulls in the bull pasture during the winter. Of those 25 are Charolais the rest are BA with a couple Red Angus tossed in. All the replacement heifers he keeps are black or red. The Char crosses are the terminal calves.

 

[Warren Allison]

You haven't given me any example of mass losses of calves as you implied in your post to the OP. AM is in the distant past. In the commercial world it was easily fixed by using bulls that were not carriers even if you had a herd of cows that were AM carriers which you wouldn't. By buying registered bulls their genetic condition status is there for all to see. Unregistered bulls may pose a risk.

Ken

I agree with you about using only registered bulls. There ought to be against the law for there to ever be intact grade stallions and unregistered bulls. . A good commercial bull would make a great steer.

 

[Travlr]

I agree with you about using only registered bulls. There ought to be against the law for there to ever be intact grade stallions and unregistered bulls. . A good commercial bull would make a great steer.

"ought to be against the law... "

Sure glad this is a free country...

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Welcome to the boards. I'm on the opposite side of the US, Upstate NY.
I have been breeding Simmentals for over 50 years.
When you decide to raise cattle, any cattle, you first have to be a grass farmer. I strongly advise you to put in cross fences and do ROTATIONAL grazing. It is not a new concept. It will vary region to region. I generally rotate every 2 to 5 days. NY grows grass/clover like weeds.
Your area may be totally different. I expect it will be.
If you don't plan to advertise your Purebred cattle by showing them, or putting bulls in bull tests ----it is difficult to sell your breeding stock.
I would recommend buying commercial bred 4+ year old cows all due to calve in a time period best for your location.
It's much easier to manage a specific calving "season". For me, I calve 60 days, Jan and Feb and another 60 days fall calving, Sept and Oct.
Splits my resources/facilities, gives me more age options to sell.
Buy the BEST registered bull you can afford for the number of cows. A yearling bull can cover maybe 15-20 cows in a 60 day season. Find out what breeds sell well in your area as feeders. But also keep in mind you will want to keep heifers for replacements. Some breeds work best as terminal.
I will throw in a pitch for my breed. They work well as growth bulls and for replacements.
I just weighed a steer that we just sold as a show steer- to be picked up after we get him weaned. He was born 1.3.22 and smashed the scales at 642# this morning.
Don't let anyone bully you away. This is a GREAT forum with lots of great mentors.

 

[Silver]

Though I appreciate your attempt at humor at my expense, I can tell you I have never failed at anything I have set out to do.

You'll have to excuse him, he can't help himself. Keep on posting.

 

[Hippie Rancher]

I agree with you about using only registered bulls. There ought to be against the law for there to ever be intact grade stallions and unregistered bulls. . A good commercial bull would make a great steer.

agree on horses, not necessarily on cattle.

 

[Sierra2Sea]

Welcome to the boards. I'm on the opposite side of the US, Upstate NY.
I have been breeding Simmentals for over 50 years.
When you decide to raise cattle, any cattle, you first have to be a grass farmer. I strongly advise you to put in cross fences and do ROTATIONAL grazing. It is not a new concept. It will vary region to region. I generally rotate every 2 to 5 days. NY grows grass/clover like weeds.
Your area may be totally different. I expect it will be.
If you don't plan to advertise your Purebred cattle by showing them, or putting bulls in bull tests ----it is difficult to sell your breeding stock.
I would recommend buying commercial bred 4+ year old cows all due to calve in a time period best for your location.
It's much easier to manage a specific calving "season". For me, I calve 60 days, Jan and Feb and another 60 days fall calving, Sept and Oct.
Splits my resources/facilities, gives me more age options to sell.
Buy the BEST registered bull you can afford for the number of cows. A yearling bull can cover maybe 15-20 cows in a 60 day season. Find out what breeds sell well in your area as feeders. But also keep in mind you will want to keep heifers for replacements. Some breeds work best as terminal.
I will throw in a pitch for my breed. They work well as growth bulls and for replacements.
I just weighed a steer that we just sold as a show steer- to be picked up after we get him weaned. He was born 1.3.22 and smashed the scales at 642# this morning.
Don't let anyone bully you away. This is a GREAT forum with lots of great mentors.

Thanks for all the tips!

 

[Sierra2Sea]

"There certainly haven't been train wrecks."

Why do you think there is now, "a big breed society that monitors and knows how to react to any recessive problems before they affect the commercial cattle industry."?

This from a simple google search: The widespread use of the superior carcass-trait bull Precision 1680, an AM carrier (AMC), increased the probability of this bull showing up on both sides of many Angus pedigrees, and this uncovered the presence of the recessive lethal mutation that results in "curly calf" syndrome.

And the more we use artificial insemination with a pyramid tip of top bulls siring the majority of commercial bulls we are destroying genetic diversity.

Not that we couldn't argue it the other way too. I have no problem using black Angus bulls for a terminal program... but I prefer to stay away from BA for replacement stock.

Makes perfect sense to me...

 

[pdubdo]

Good luck! I'm in my 5th year after starting from scratch and enjoying (almost) every new experience! This forum is great for answering questions.

 

[TexasRancher]

Any bets as to how this story ends?

LVR, you must be watching my story too. Wake up every morning having my plans and work to do...it's the passion and love of the experience. Very true though... I wouldn't be in cattle unless I was retired.... or had at least 500 acres of lush pasture, fenced in 40 acre sections with lots of stock tanks.
I enjoy the paperwork filling out the Schedule F these days.....it's nice to see how far I've come in relation to it's easier for a camel to go through an eye of a needle. I'm giving back to God, cattle and the land...I believe something I'm doing today will positively impact cattle or humanity long after I'm gone.

 

[Lee VanRoss]

LVR, you must be watching my story too. Wake up every morning having my plans and work to do...it's the passion and love of the experience. Very true though... I wouldn't be in cattle unless I was retired.... or had at least 500 acres of lush pasture, fenced in 40 acre sections with lots of stock tanks.
I enjoy the paperwork filling out the Schedule F these days.....it's nice to see how far I've come in relation to it's easier for a camel to go through an eye of a needle. I'm giving back to God, cattle and the land...I believe something I'm doing today will positively impact cattle or humanity long after I'm gone.

Give credit to He who watches the sparrow. I am just a fellow talmidem, (servant if you will)